Take a look at this video of British “comedian” Pat Condell’s rant on the side of those who oppose the “Ground Zero Mosque”.
There is very little in Condell’s subjective and skewed diatribe that are not the rehashed arguments of the anti-Ground Zero Mosque movement. Reworking the same tired themes of the “offensive” nature of a building that is neither a mosque nor on Ground Zero, that is an “insult” to the “sensitivity” of Americans. The bulk of this comment contains the “Muslims and the granting of special privileges” screed that is pure Daily Express material.
Pat Condell is a member of the National Secular Society. Some years ago, the NSS applauded his video, The Trouble With Islam. Condell was also nominated by the NSS for their Secularist of the Year award, because he has:
“for several years now risked his life by answering back to the rule of political correctness, the thoughtlessness of religion generally and the increasing threat of Islam in our society.”
Unfortunately Condell has some dodgy backers. Pam Geller has posted his anti “Ground Zero mosque” rant on her website to help promote the Stop Islamization of America demonstration in New York next week, at which Geert Wilders will be a featured speaker.
Then there is Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch, Geller’s co-leader of SIOA, who can’t praise Condell highly enough:
“Condell’s commentary is passionate, articulate, wide-ranging, and hard-hitting”
Secularism might, in all possibility though not exclusively, overlap with the hatred of a particular religion or of religion as such. This is particularly true when religion presents entrenched instances of theocracy with an aggressive opposition to the separation of Mosque and State – as Islam often does.
However, when the NSS cannot separate its hatred of Islam from its association with some of the worst proponents of America’s anti-Muslim far-right, via their own “Secularist of the Year” nominee, then there is a big problem. Then it looks like the NSS has only a cosmetic and spurious attachment to the principles of secularism and a growing fondness for anti-Muslim bigotry.
Supporting the NSS becomes problematic if it turns out to be little more than an institution which advocates bigotry and prejudice in the guise of secularism.
22 Comments
I’ve oft noted that in the pursuit of secularism and the fight against extremist, hate-filled and bigoted religion, it’s all too easy to become extremist, hate-filled and bigoted.
Here we go again with bait and switch and lies from the supporters of bad taste. The building is so close to the war crime that it was struck by debris. The so called games with Mosques and community center are amusing. The area is adjacent to the greatest war crime perpetrated against the American people. FYI these war crimes were committed in the name of Islam.
Thus far the papers have revealed the money is from slum lords and a person who backed a closed Hamas charity. There are rules regulating tax exempt groups that the founders of this abomination feel they are exempt from. Of course the fact that something is legal does not infer it is correect or prudent. Time for the auditors to look over the books.
The foreign money bit for US Tax exempt institutions will be revisited in congress.
Here we go again – the funny and confused narratives of USA, alias Beakerkin.
Wow – where do I even begin to start with this twisted diatribe? You see, normally, I’d pick something like this apart, but it’s such a crock it could have come straight from the pages of the Daily Mirror. You’re not Piers Morgan in disguise are you?
In this case, there’s just so much wrong here it’s like trying to explain physics to a flat earther. So how about I start with the outright lie?
“The NSS have now named him the Secularist of the Year”
Er, no they haven’t. The page you linked to was the result of the public nominations. In fact, they awarded the prize this year to the Southall Black Sisters.
“Southall Black Sisters (SBS) was set up to meet the needs of Black and Asian women who are the victims of domestic violence or injustices in the legal system.”
http://www.secularism.org.uk/secularist-of-the-year-prize-awa.html
Yeah, those awful bigots, awarding a prize to a black woman’s group to help abused women.
Does spreading lies about people trying to do good make YOU feel good?
Alan Parker,
I acknowledge my error: Condell was nominated not named ‘Secularist of the Year’ by the NSS. I have changed that in the text. Thanks!
But the underlying point still stands. Condell is being touted by a number of US far-right anti-Muslim figures such as Pam Geller and Robert Spencer of SIOA and Jihad Watch for championing their anti-Ground Zero Mosque campaign.
Will the NSS continue to post agreeable write-ups of Condell’s video diatribes now that the JihadWatch association has been established?
It would be a shame if it did, don’t you think?
This is just an attempted smear agaist the NSS from an author needing to lie to make his point.
As already pointed out Pat Condell was nominated by a public vote but the NSS awarded the prize to the Southall Black Sisters who exist to meet the needs of Black and Asian women who are the victims of domestic violence or injustices in the legal system.
As far as I can see the NSS have made no comment on the “Ground Zero Mosque” that isn’t actually at ground zero at all but a few blocks away. Most secularists, including the NSS, would defend people’s freedom to worship.
But most secularists would be more uneasy about being lauded by Pam Geller and Robert Spencer, as NSS ‘nominee’ Pat Condell is right now.
Will the NSS continue to champion Condell or will they be distancing themselves from him now that he is firmly part of the anti-GZM campaign?
That’s what it boils down to.
1) That’s the National *Secular* Society.
2) Pat Condell does not speak for the NSS.
3) It can be embarrassing when bigots agree with you, but it does not mean that you are wrong.
1) Changed
2) The NSS rate him very highly.
3) What is right about the anti-GZM campaign?
“What is right about the anti-GZM campaign?”
Park51 is as offensive as drawing cartoons of Mohammed?
There is nothing right about the anti-GZM campaign. That is not the point I was making.
If you want to attack the NSS, attack the NSS.
I am attacking the NSS for its unqualified association with Pat Condell who is now signed up to the anti-GZM campaign.
Silly me. I thought you were trying to portray the NSS as “an institution which advocates bigotry and prejudice in the guise of secularism” by pointing at the words of someone who doesn’t speak for them.
My bad.
Don’t be silly. If the NSS had nominated a person who later championed say, the EDL movement or Islamic extremism or some European antisemitic group, why would that association – comprised of nominations, glowing write-ups and tributes – be immaterial?
I would have thought that in such instances, the NSS would move very quickly to disassociate. But in the case of Condell, they haven’t moved a muscle.
If the NSS decide to do nothing about their association with Condell in the light of his support of the anti-GZM movement, then it is in danger of becoming an institution which advocates bigotry and prejudice in the guise of secularism.
I fear that that would be damning for the NSS and give secularism in the UK a very bad name.
So the article was written out of a genuine concern for the public image of an institution which you didn’t even know the correct name of until a couple of hours ago?
Condell’s standing in the secular ‘community’ has been in free-fall for some time. His touting of the book ‘Muslim Mafia’ put him in the same camp as WorldNetDaily and Paul David Gaubatz, who is connected to the white supremacist Society of Americans for National Existence.
Sites such as Atheist Media Blog are sharply divided on the issue.
http://www.atheistmedia.com/2010/08/freedom-is-my-religion.html#comments
My own opinion is about tenth down.
“So the article was written out of a genuine concern for the public image of an institution which you didn’t even know the correct name of until a couple of hours ago?”
Yeah I spelt it National Secularist Society instead of National Secular Society. What a superb retort yours is, truly.
If the NSS is the object of Anti-Muslim entryism and populated by Robert Spencer afficianados, as it seems to be, perhaps it should remove the word “Secular” from its name altogether.
Not questioning your spelling, effendi. Just your sincerity.
If you were genuinely motivated by your “fear” of secularism in the UK a getting a “very bad name”, then you wouldn’t have concocted this clumsy smear-job in the first place.
That’s if you think secularism in the UK is somehow synonymous with the National Secular Society. Worse – to suggest secularism is equivalent to backing Pat Condell in spite of his association to Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer of JihadWatch .
If that is secularism to you, no wonder you have to reach for the word “smear” to dismiss the NSS touting Condell. It is the last defence of those who have nothing substantive in response, beyond correcting typos, grammatical errors and spelling mistakes.
“Smear” is any statement made in a debate that can be used when you have no data or information to counter with. When in doubt, use “smear”, it will quickly put your enemy in the defensive. Often used with “racist” as in “Racist smear”.
~ The Sunny Hundal School of Debate
Pat Condell’s video is certainly angry, as is your commentary on it. He does make some very specific accusations and statements, some of which are obviously true, others I simply don’t know about.
You respond with a general smear, without attempting to answer, deny or refute any of Condell’s points.
As an observer who knows nothing of either of you, I know who I will take most seriously.
Rubbish. It’s Pat Condell who is demonising ordinary Muslims and the failure of the NSS is that it has not only accepted his diatribes as fact – but has championed and rewarded Condell – who is little more than a petty rabble rouser. The NSS now joins Pam Geller, Robert Geller, the Tea Party and the EDL in championing Condell. That’s the kind of company the NSS now sees itself as being part of.
That’s not secularism – it’s an anti-Muslim agenda.