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	<title>Comments on: (Sunni) Islamism&#8217;s Hatred of Shia Muslims Surfaces in Pakistan</title>
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	<link>http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4888</link>
	<description>Heresy is another word for freedom of thought</description>
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		<title>By: Abu Faris</title>
		<link>http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4888#comment-22785</link>
		<dc:creator>Abu Faris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2011 21:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Not to involve myself too much with someone who thinks it is legitimate to *hate* people who disagree with his own views, but the previous poster has produced such garbled nonsense that it cannot bear to be ignored:

The assertion that the Shi&#039;a attribute the &quot;quality of mistake&quot; to Allah is a garbled and half-understood attempt to make the sort of accusations made against intellectual strands in Islamic thought and theology made centuries ago - it actually revolves around the controversy concerning the eternity (or otherwise) of the Qur&#039;an - and, in particular, the Shi&#039;a claim that the Qur&#039;an as collated by &#039;Ali was discarded in favour of one collated by those surrounding his competitor, &#039;Uthman. The discoveries of otherwise collated Qur&#039;an examples in Sana&#039;a of course suggest that bthe Shi&#039;a might have some sort of point. Whatever the case, the actual position is not that the Qur&#039;an as it stands is mistaken, nor that it differs radically from &#039;Ali&#039;s Qur&#039;an, nor - especially - that it contains mistakes made by Allah. Of course, if you believe the Qur&#039;an is uncreated (as the Wahhabi insist), then any differences between Qur&#039;an copies would be tantamount to God changing His mind... well, perhaps He did. He has been known too before: this need not imply He was previously mistaken, incidentally.

The Shi&#039;a tenet of  Imamate is *not* denial of the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad, as the last poster falsely claims. The Shi&#039;a Imams are not regarded as subsequent prophets by Shi&#039;a - consequently the Shi&#039;a cannot be accused of breaching the Quranic injunction that Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets, the final prophet. Shi&#039;a Imams are regarded as being the sole legitimate leaders of the Muslim community *after* the death of the Prophet - this is, quite clearly, a distinct issue (although just as contentious).

There is considerable criticism amongst Shi&#039;a for the conduct of a number of the original followers of the Prophet subsequent to his death. In particular, Aisha&#039;s encouragement and support for rebellion against &#039;Ali, her treatment of Fatima. As vitally, there is open rejection of the appalling conduct of the early Ummayid caliphate - something that eventually led to not only the attempted liquidation of the Ahl ul-Bayt as descended through Fatima and &#039;Ali, but also to the revival of pre-Islamic blood feuds between members of the early Muslim community.

It is heartening to learn that the Shi&#039;a should not be killed by bombings - especially from one so witless as to, nonetheless, council hatred against &quot;heretics and deviants&quot;. The fact the the author of this piece of medievalist intolerance cannot make the connection between sectarian &quot;hatred&quot; and terrorism is a measure of his witlessness, however; and calls into question the degree to which he really objects to the murder of those with whom he disagrees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to involve myself too much with someone who thinks it is legitimate to *hate* people who disagree with his own views, but the previous poster has produced such garbled nonsense that it cannot bear to be ignored:</p>
<p>The assertion that the Shi&#8217;a attribute the &#8220;quality of mistake&#8221; to Allah is a garbled and half-understood attempt to make the sort of accusations made against intellectual strands in Islamic thought and theology made centuries ago &#8211; it actually revolves around the controversy concerning the eternity (or otherwise) of the Qur&#8217;an &#8211; and, in particular, the Shi&#8217;a claim that the Qur&#8217;an as collated by &#8216;Ali was discarded in favour of one collated by those surrounding his competitor, &#8216;Uthman. The discoveries of otherwise collated Qur&#8217;an examples in Sana&#8217;a of course suggest that bthe Shi&#8217;a might have some sort of point. Whatever the case, the actual position is not that the Qur&#8217;an as it stands is mistaken, nor that it differs radically from &#8216;Ali&#8217;s Qur&#8217;an, nor &#8211; especially &#8211; that it contains mistakes made by Allah. Of course, if you believe the Qur&#8217;an is uncreated (as the Wahhabi insist), then any differences between Qur&#8217;an copies would be tantamount to God changing His mind&#8230; well, perhaps He did. He has been known too before: this need not imply He was previously mistaken, incidentally.</p>
<p>The Shi&#8217;a tenet of  Imamate is *not* denial of the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad, as the last poster falsely claims. The Shi&#8217;a Imams are not regarded as subsequent prophets by Shi&#8217;a &#8211; consequently the Shi&#8217;a cannot be accused of breaching the Quranic injunction that Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets, the final prophet. Shi&#8217;a Imams are regarded as being the sole legitimate leaders of the Muslim community *after* the death of the Prophet &#8211; this is, quite clearly, a distinct issue (although just as contentious).</p>
<p>There is considerable criticism amongst Shi&#8217;a for the conduct of a number of the original followers of the Prophet subsequent to his death. In particular, Aisha&#8217;s encouragement and support for rebellion against &#8216;Ali, her treatment of Fatima. As vitally, there is open rejection of the appalling conduct of the early Ummayid caliphate &#8211; something that eventually led to not only the attempted liquidation of the Ahl ul-Bayt as descended through Fatima and &#8216;Ali, but also to the revival of pre-Islamic blood feuds between members of the early Muslim community.</p>
<p>It is heartening to learn that the Shi&#8217;a should not be killed by bombings &#8211; especially from one so witless as to, nonetheless, council hatred against &#8220;heretics and deviants&#8221;. The fact the the author of this piece of medievalist intolerance cannot make the connection between sectarian &#8220;hatred&#8221; and terrorism is a measure of his witlessness, however; and calls into question the degree to which he really objects to the murder of those with whom he disagrees.</p>
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		<title>By: ukhtun ibraaheem</title>
		<link>http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4888#comment-22784</link>
		<dc:creator>ukhtun ibraaheem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>if u dont hav eemaan than dont blame Ahl.e.Eemaan(wahhaabees)4 havin hatred for heretics &amp; deviant shias.
no doubt v hate those who attribute the quality of mistake to All-Mighty Allaah,who counter finality of Prophethood by Imaamat,who abuse the Beloved Mothers of the believrs;one of Ahl.e.Bait,who dont respct honourable Sahaaabah but at the same tym dont kill dm by bombings!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if u dont hav eemaan than dont blame Ahl.e.Eemaan(wahhaabees)4 havin hatred for heretics &amp; deviant shias.<br />
no doubt v hate those who attribute the quality of mistake to All-Mighty Allaah,who counter finality of Prophethood by Imaamat,who abuse the Beloved Mothers of the believrs;one of Ahl.e.Bait,who dont respct honourable Sahaaabah but at the same tym dont kill dm by bombings!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Effendi</title>
		<link>http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4888#comment-15808</link>
		<dc:creator>Effendi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spittoon.org/?p=4888#comment-15808</guid>
		<description>Edited the title and some of the post too, AF.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edited the title and some of the post too, AF.</p>
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		<title>By: Abu Faris</title>
		<link>http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4888#comment-15807</link>
		<dc:creator>Abu Faris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spittoon.org/?p=4888#comment-15807</guid>
		<description>The title of this piece needs changing.

This should read:&lt;i&gt; Sunni Islamism&#039;s hatred of Shi&#039;a...&lt;/i&gt;

Islamism is also a Shi&#039;a phenomenon; and something that non-Khomeinist Twelvers, Ismai&#039;ili and other Shi&#039;a have been struggling against - usually quite forgotten - for years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The title of this piece needs changing.</p>
<p>This should read:<i> Sunni Islamism&#8217;s hatred of Shi&#8217;a&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Islamism is also a Shi&#8217;a phenomenon; and something that non-Khomeinist Twelvers, Ismai&#8217;ili and other Shi&#8217;a have been struggling against &#8211; usually quite forgotten &#8211; for years.</p>
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