Comments on: Spying is morally acceptable, says Sunny Hundal http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4659 Heresy is another word for freedom of thought Fri, 10 Feb 2012 20:32:51 +0000 hourly 1 By: Effendi http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4659#comment-15255 Effendi Fri, 08 Jan 2010 17:28:01 +0000 http://www.spittoon.org/?p=4659#comment-15255 Link corrected, thanks. As for Abu Usamah, I have no evidence he delivered a diatribe at ELM. But you are right; Abu Usamah, who is on record for saying that homosexual men should be thrown off a mountain; that women are inferior to men; that young girls who don't wear the hijab should be beaten; that those who leave Islam should be crucified; that Jews are “kuffars” (non-believers) and the enemies of Islam, might have instead delivered a short, gentle speech at ELM on the value of prayer, solitude and contemplation. Link corrected, thanks. As for Abu Usamah, I have no evidence he delivered a diatribe at ELM. But you are right; Abu Usamah, who is on record for saying that homosexual men should be thrown off a mountain; that women are inferior to men; that young girls who don’t wear the hijab should be beaten; that those who leave Islam should be crucified; that Jews are “kuffars” (non-believers) and the enemies of Islam, might have instead delivered a short, gentle speech at ELM on the value of prayer, solitude and contemplation.

]]> By: Karl http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4659#comment-15254 Karl Fri, 08 Jan 2010 17:06:06 +0000 http://www.spittoon.org/?p=4659#comment-15254 <i>Well first of all, evidence of Abdulmutallab’s contact with Anwar al-Awlaki while studying at UCL was confirmed almost a week before Sunny wrote this article, but he wilfully chose to ignore it.</i> Your embedded link is to an article in The Times that seems to make no mention of Awlaki. Though I feel sure I read somewhere else that they may have come into contact in the UK, possibly in the Telegraph. <i>He [Abu Usamah ad Thahabee] ended up delivering his diatribe at East London Mosque.</i> As you mention the importance of evidence and research in your first paragraph, is there any evidence that he delivered a 'diatribe' there? I thought his diatribe on record was the one you mention shown in the Channel 4 documentary. Well first of all, evidence of Abdulmutallab’s contact with Anwar al-Awlaki while studying at UCL was confirmed almost a week before Sunny wrote this article, but he wilfully chose to ignore it.

Your embedded link is to an article in The Times that seems to make no mention of Awlaki. Though I feel sure I read somewhere else that they may have come into contact in the UK, possibly in the Telegraph.

He [Abu Usamah ad Thahabee] ended up delivering his diatribe at East London Mosque.

As you mention the importance of evidence and research in your first paragraph, is there any evidence that he delivered a ‘diatribe’ there? I thought his diatribe on record was the one you mention shown in the Channel 4 documentary.

]]> By: Sanjay http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4659#comment-15249 Sanjay Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:30:18 +0000 http://www.spittoon.org/?p=4659#comment-15249 <b>And with this binary firmly in place, Hundal regards “brown” clerical fascists as underdogs, worthy of support or, at least, morally acceptable.</b> ++++ What is most remarkable is that as someone of Sikh Indian heritage, the clerical fascists who he so impulsively renders apologia for, utterly hate him. Its not 'browns' against the 'whites', its clerical fascists of every ethnicity against anyone who doesn't agree with them, including 'brown' kuffar like him (and all the Muslims who don't toe their line too) Its quite incredible to see a mind like that at work. He is the dictionary definition of that overused phrase, which all the same is apposite in his case - a Useful Idiot to the jihadist - Maududi - Qutb far right extremists. And with this binary firmly in place, Hundal regards “brown” clerical fascists as underdogs, worthy of support or, at least, morally acceptable.

++++

What is most remarkable is that as someone of Sikh Indian heritage, the clerical fascists who he so impulsively renders apologia for, utterly hate him. Its not ‘browns’ against the ‘whites’, its clerical fascists of every ethnicity against anyone who doesn’t agree with them, including ‘brown’ kuffar like him (and all the Muslims who don’t toe their line too)

Its quite incredible to see a mind like that at work. He is the dictionary definition of that overused phrase, which all the same is apposite in his case – a Useful Idiot to the jihadist – Maududi – Qutb far right extremists.

]]> By: Effendi http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4659#comment-15242 Effendi Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:28:02 +0000 http://www.spittoon.org/?p=4659#comment-15242 If you ask me, I think a combination of <a href="http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/01/04/travellers-security-screening.html" rel="nofollow">nationality-based airport profiling</a> and surveillance of criminal and terrorist activity need to applied in conjunction. What Sunny hasn't been able to do is to specify what levels of spying he considers to be acceptable. And for someone who protests that banning Islamist hate-incitement is against civil liberties, I find that inconsistency both appalling and characteristic of Hundal. If you ask me, I think a combination of nationality-based airport profiling and surveillance of criminal and terrorist activity need to applied in conjunction.

What Sunny hasn’t been able to do is to specify what levels of spying he considers to be acceptable. And for someone who protests that banning Islamist hate-incitement is against civil liberties, I find that inconsistency both appalling and characteristic of Hundal.

]]> By: bananabrain http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4659#comment-15241 bananabrain Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:16:05 +0000 http://www.spittoon.org/?p=4659#comment-15241 sunny's definitely ignoring the problem of radicalism in the universities, probably because he doesn't want to get on the wrong side of his new friends in "progressive" london (hah!!!) but i think this point about his inconsistency in opposing racial profiling but thinking spying is OK is actually the weakest. i actually don't think, on reflection, that they are incompatible. the idea of racial profiling is, in fact, unworkable in terms of preventing terrorism - there are an abundance of blue-eyed, blonde chechen jihadis to choose from if that's the way your mind works, not to mention converts. i agree he's not doing a great job of defending his point of view but neither do i think this particular line of argument is well thought out. for the record, i think that whatever our own personal feelings on spying by the security services might be, the fact is it's going to go on no matter how much we pound our keyboards and huff and puff. i don't think it's wrong to deplore the necessity and work to create an environment where it is no longer necessary. and i don't think racial profiling contributes very much either to the debate or the underlying problem. on the other hand, neither does sitting on a platform with ikhwaanis and other rabid islamists, let alone the antediluvian class warriors of the zombie of revolutionary socialism or their friends, the paid shills of the clerical fascists in iran. b'shalom bananabrain sunny’s definitely ignoring the problem of radicalism in the universities, probably because he doesn’t want to get on the wrong side of his new friends in “progressive” london (hah!!!) but i think this point about his inconsistency in opposing racial profiling but thinking spying is OK is actually the weakest. i actually don’t think, on reflection, that they are incompatible. the idea of racial profiling is, in fact, unworkable in terms of preventing terrorism – there are an abundance of blue-eyed, blonde chechen jihadis to choose from if that’s the way your mind works, not to mention converts. i agree he’s not doing a great job of defending his point of view but neither do i think this particular line of argument is well thought out. for the record, i think that whatever our own personal feelings on spying by the security services might be, the fact is it’s going to go on no matter how much we pound our keyboards and huff and puff. i don’t think it’s wrong to deplore the necessity and work to create an environment where it is no longer necessary. and i don’t think racial profiling contributes very much either to the debate or the underlying problem.

on the other hand, neither does sitting on a platform with ikhwaanis and other rabid islamists, let alone the antediluvian class warriors of the zombie of revolutionary socialism or their friends, the paid shills of the clerical fascists in iran.

b’shalom

bananabrain

]]> By: The Common Humanist http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4659#comment-15240 The Common Humanist Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:04:51 +0000 http://www.spittoon.org/?p=4659#comment-15240 A good piece and I too think Sunny is ignoring the problem of radicalisation in Britain's Universities whilst also making good points about general civil liberties. When I was at Uni doing my first degree in Bradford the favourite hobby of the Islamic and Pakistan socieites was defacing Jewish Society and LGB Society posters with foul anti-semitic and homophobic abuse - this was regularly bragged about in my Halls of Residence kitchen. Not a nice bunch of fellas really. The girls were really great - friendly and liberal - until some of wannabee Jihadis put a stop to mixed gender meetings. Utterly pathetic boymen the lot of them. Never met a bunch of lads more in need of romantic love prior or since. A good piece and I too think Sunny is ignoring the problem of radicalisation in Britain’s Universities whilst also making good points about general civil liberties.

When I was at Uni doing my first degree in Bradford the favourite hobby of the Islamic and Pakistan socieites was defacing Jewish Society and LGB Society posters with foul anti-semitic and homophobic abuse – this was regularly bragged about in my Halls of Residence kitchen. Not a nice bunch of fellas really. The girls were really great – friendly and liberal – until some of wannabee Jihadis put a stop to mixed gender meetings. Utterly pathetic boymen the lot of them. Never met a bunch of lads more in need of romantic love prior or since.

]]>