This is a guest post by Abu Wannabe Arab
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Things have not been going well for Hizb ut-Tahrir (HT) recently. Key leading members have left, their annual conferences have had very poor turnoutsand their sham sex education campaign was exposed. Even their attempt to branch out into the education sector was exposed by the Conservatives and Newsnight and, to top it all off, they held a poorly attended press conference in which fumbling Fombo (aka Hizb ut-Tahrir’s answer to Alastair Campbell, Taji Mustafa) made a complete tit of himself. But it seems things abroad are going even worse. They have been banned in Bangladesh, members have been arrested in Pakistan and they are virtually defunct in the Arab world.
To add insult to injury, their previous stronghold of Central Asia doesn’t seem to be going according to plan either. Eurasianet.org reports:
Information on the inner workings of Hizb-ut-Tahrir is sketchy, but there is evidence that public support for the group is seriously eroding. In May 2008, the Kyrgyz State Agency for Religious Affairs put the number of Hizb-ut-Tahrir members at around 15,000. A year later, after the Nookat convictions, the Kyrgyz Ministry of Interior claimed that membership was decreasing and said there were only 118 members in the country.
Oh dear.
Economic hardship appears to be playing a role: unable to generate income in Kyrgyzstan, Hizb members, like many other men in the country, have left in search of work. A large percentage of these labor migrants have headed to Russia and Kazakhstan.
The hardening of the government’s tactics, however, has put the most pressure on Hizb members. “What can you do in this [repressive] environment? After Nookat there are no controls on police and prosecutors,” complained a Hizb member from Kara-Suu, a town in southern Osh Province, who spoke to EurasiaNet on condition of anonymity.
“They can arrest and torture anyone; they can put anyone they suspect in jail,” the Hizb member continued. “[President Kurmanbek] Bakiyev gave them [unlimited] powers.”
Another Kara-Suu-based Hizb activist claimed that the government was indiscriminately targeting devout Muslims for persecution, including many who are not radically inclined. “They [government officials] claim they are Muslims, but their policies punish Muslims,” the activist said.
Whilst we should all condemn the harsh suppressive tactics of central Asian authoritarian regimes, it is hypocritical of HT to moan about ‘authoritarianism’ when they themselves believe in abolishing democracy and human rights and instead establishing a theocratic dictatorship whose foreign policy would be aggressive Jihadist expansion.
Yet another factor in Hizb-ut-Tahrir’s decline is ideological/theological competition. In recent years the Kyrgyz section of the Ferghana Valley has witnessed the growth of other religious convictions, a trend that appears to have weakened Hizb’s appeal. According to some local analysts, mainstream Muslim leaders who have emerged in many Kyrgyz towns who have been more successful than Hizb activists in putting spiritual issues on the political agenda. This, according to observers, has significantly reduced Hizb’s allure as an outlet for the discussion of spiritual issues.
“Hizb was a fad for many [Kyrgyz] Muslims when they were rediscovering and reestablishing ties with the Muslim world [after independence]. The same trend happened in other Muslim-populated countries. But things change and fads pass,” said Ulugbek Sokin, an Osh-based analyst.
HT’s Kyrgz branch seems to be following HT’s standard trajectory all around the world. A huge burst of energy and activity is following by the intelligent members leaving, the hardcore members becoming Jihadists and nearly everybody else simply losing interest and getting on with their lives. HT’s ideology had something to offer Kyrgz Muslims after independence, just as it had something to offer the generation of British Muslims growing up in the early to mid-1990s, but now its bankruptcy has become apparent. HT have nothing left to offer – the British and Kyrgz publics know it and, increasingly, HT’s rank and file know it too.
World domination was never going to be easy, but HT really make it look hard.
16 Comments
I bet you google “hizb ut tahrir” every day. You are sad git.
Aaaah Poor Shareef was hoping we wouldn’t catch this recent set back for HT. Sorry mate but we don’t miss a thing.
Your not that loser ‘Shareef’ from Sheffield are you who cheated in his exams?
I’m sure that would be of great comfort to you, but alas, I am very materially successful after 20 years in various city institutions. (you twat)
Really Shareef? I heard your being sued for selling fake viagra!
What an idiot you are.
Shareef is it allowed to cheat in your exams in dar-ul Kufr?
Selling fake viagra? It seems Shareef’s customers and HT have something in common. You thick twat!
Is Abu Wannabee trying to become a full time writer at Spittoon, like Escargot, well he is on the right track to do so.
Using the scraps on information you find on the internet you make connections that fit your own assumptions and you treat all information from all sources as accurate as long as it chimes with your position.
As for the school, funding has been resumed.
Taji actually presented his case very well.
The SREIslamic campaign is going from strength to strength with grassroots support increasing. They had two events this week and were invited to an annual national Muslim Education Conference last week.
I think it is you who has been slapped!
HT always boast about how well they are doing and how the Caliphate is just around the corner. What a load of codswallop!!!!
I normally see all the news related to HT and then the comments as well.
I have found that those who are supporting are very staunch and of course the most uncommon quality is readily available in them. Piety, Commitment, Dedication and Care for the Global Justice. In fact their language too is very much modest and respecting. Though sometime they show sadness in the words due to HT being on the receiving corner, but still they have hope (perhaps that’s what comes to you in believe in Islam and Allah (SWT)).
On the other hand most of the those who oppose HT, cant write even a single msg without abusing and calling a name. They write irrelevant and out of context statements and try to win by the situation. Situation keeps changing and we must understand that abuses and adamant behaviour doesn’t win arguments and debates. In fact this will give more sympathisers to HT and some ready made recruits.
I have seen many videos of Ahmed Deedat, none of his opposite sides ever accepted the defeat or agreed with his terms though they speak irrelevant and out of context statements and this is very much obvious. This obviousness of the debate gives light to so many others and there comes the real result. Despite all the abuses and names, Ahmed Deedat still continued to talk and debate and there are plenty of people who came to his center and embraced Islam. I think the same is happening to this HT also. More we abuse, and call them names, more people will be attracted to them thinking that enemies of HT dont have convincing answers for HT. And till now HT is winning in reality, though it may look like they are being suppressed. In fact suppression is coming only from the powerful side, not from the intellectual side. Recently they were banned from participating in a college debated, that’s also is one example of what I am claiming here. NO INTELLECTUAL DEFEAT FOR HT, ONLY POWER SHOW ON THE WEAKER SIDE.
I only pray, that those who are on the right path and are willing to make this world a nice place to live in real sense, must win. May Allah (SWT) give success to the righteous and lovers of justice.
Muhammad – HT have been intellectually defeated years ago. People are bored of picking their crazy theories apart. Their membership is in terminal decline and their events are recieving less and less attendee’s, despite the fact that Muslim populations are on the rise. The above article cites yet another example of this in central asia.
Your portrayal of HT as noble and dignified individuals, like the great Deedat, illustrates that you know very little about them. HT members and supporters have a long and illustrious history of being vile, aggressive, rumour mongering, slanderous little cretins. There is nothing dignified about. Nor can they claim to be martyrs for free speech. They don’t even allow comments on their website – such losers!
Oh and they also issue death threats against their opponents. So please don’t insult the memory of Deedat by comparing him to these freaks of nature.
Infected Phleghm,
“”As for the school, funding has been resumed.
Taji actually presented his case very well.
The SREIslamic campaign is going from strength to strength with grassroots support increasing. They had two events this week and were invited to an annual national Muslim Education Conference last week”"
So, I guess it won’t be too long till you can groom a full blown Jihadist insurgency to murder and brutalise. Have you any idea what life will be like for all your other citizens once the genie you are brewing is unleashed? I appreciate what you want is as much violence as possible – you are Islamists after all – but seriously what you are doing with that school is just plain wrong. It is evil to indoctrinate young people to hate others as HUT does.
I worry for the future of my country as the Islamists are allowed to spread hatred, fear, antisemitism and women hatred through the population of British Muslims. You should be ashamed of yourselves, Islamists like you are turning this from a tolerant Country into the opposite, slowly but surely.
You utter utter bastards for trying to turn Britain into a Balkanised, hate filled State.
Mohammad Fazlur Rahm,
With the greastest of respect you are supporting the side that is against 99.9% of humanity and wishes a totalitarean religious state to be imposed on all.
Is that really a side that is ‘those who are on the right path and are willing to make this world a nice place to live in real sense, must win. May Allah (SWT) give success to the righteous and lovers of justice’?????
How is relegating women to sub human status making the world ‘a nice place in a real sense?’
How is a totalitarean religious fascist state making ‘the world ‘a nice place in a real sense?’
Could you attempt to answer those two questions?
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The Shariah Law myth Invented by the Islamic sects
One of the biggest myth propagated by the Sunni/Shia sects is the so called Islamic state or Shariah Law. These sects have created a whole system of theocracy based on their hadiths and fiqh. The concept of the Shariah was formulated by Sunni jursits like Imam Malik and Imam Shafi during the beginnings of the Abbasid Empire. They have produced a whole jurisprudence in criminal laws and property laws and even family laws. They compiled thousands of hadiths from the prophet and his companions to formulate a theocracy and an orthodoxy. I said before the prophet never left behind him any text but the Koran. These hadiths were compiled at the earliest 160 years after Muhammad. The sects relied on some verses of the Koran to justify an Islamic state as they call it. Lets look at them:
5.48. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
5.49. And this (He commands): Judge thou between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which Allah hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away, be assured that for some of their crime it is Allah.s purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious.
5.50. Do they then seek after a judgment of (the days of) ignorance? But who, for a people whose faith is assured, can give better judgment than Allah.
However lets look at the context of these verses in chapter 5.
43. But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them(Torah)?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah. yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.
44. It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah.s will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah.s book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) the Unbelievers.
45. We ordained therein for them: “Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.” But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.
46. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
47. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
48. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute
Here the Koran makes it clear that though the Koran, Gospel and OT are three different communities of believers, they are one in faith. There are believers among these communities and non believers. The Koran says each community should judge by the scriptures they inherited. Sunnis and Shias believe these scriptures(Torah and Gospel) have been abrogated and replaced by Muhammad and the Koran. Yet we see here clearly the Koran saying it confirmed the previous scriptures and says it must be followed and each community should follow its laws and commands. So how did the Sunnis solve this contradiction. Sunnis claim these verses are talking about how each community should practice its own shariah law in an Islamic state. Jews should live under Judaic law and Christians under Christian law. This was made to solve the minority problem in the so called Islamic state. They relied on this hadith to change the nature of these verses:
‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, reported:
A Jew and a Jewess, who had committed adultery, were brought to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him). Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to the Jews and said: What do you find in Torah for those guilty of adultery? They said: We darken their faces and make them ride on the donkey with their faces turned to the opposite direction (and their backs touching each other), and then they are taken round (the city). He said: Bring Torah if you are truthful. They brought it and recited it until when they came to the verse pertaining to stoning, the person who was reading placed his hands on the verse pertaining to stoning, and read (only that which was) between his hands and what was subsequent to that. ‘Abdullah bin Salam who was at that time with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Command him (the reciter) to lift his hand. He lifted it and there was, underneath that, the verse pertaining to stoning. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) pronounced judgment about both of them and they were stoned. ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar said: I was one of those who stoned them, and I saw him (the Jew) protecting her (the Jewess) with his body. Sahih Bukhari
Of course this hadith is a fabrication(I believe, I have no proof). Why, because what would happen if the adulterers were Christians and the Gospel was used? There is no theocracy in the Gospel. There is no marriage laws or criminal laws or any other communal laws there. So what did the Koran mean? It is quite clear the Koran is not talking about a theocracy where Muslims live by Islamic law and Jews and Christians by Christian and Judaic law, as the case in the so called Islamic state. The Koran is saying each community should take its religious laws from the scriptures and not from(I believe) the talmud, the Church and their trinity and the so called hadith of Muslims.
This is because the religion of the scriptures are one, but they are followed by different communities. These communities have abandoned the scriptures for man made dogmas with each accusing the other of disbelief regardless of an individuals faith in God and the hereafter.
It is clear the Sunnis could not bring a hadith of a theocratic nature regarding Christians so they brough a Jew instead to twist the verse to mean the law of man and not the law of God. It is clear that the same hadith could not have worked with a Christian and a Gospel.
Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
The Koran then say:
“To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way”
Its obvious that the Koran means to judge your religion by the laws of the Gospel. Take your theolgy and rights and wrongs from the scriptures and not eslewhere. It is very clear that the hadith was made to change the meaning to mean to rule by the common laws you find in the Torah and Koran. However they missed the Gospel. How would the prophet rule against Christians commiting adultery or even stealing when there is nothing about such things in the Gospel? Yet the Koran says ”
“To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way”
The theocratic nature of the scriptures can change from scriptures to scriptures and in fact becuause Jesus never even ruled or governed you don’t see verses in the Gosple about communal laws for him to implement on his subjects. These communal laws are human laws that change with time but the Sunni jurists twisted that verse to go beyond what it saying.
Plus I wonder if the Torah has been corrupted and tampered with and has been abrogated as Sunnis claim, why on Earth will the Koran order these communities to abide by its laws.?
It very clear this hadith was made to fulfill the needs of a theocracy by turning these communal laws into a theocracy. And I wonder if these communal laws were Divine why on Earth do they change from the Torah to the Koran and why on Earth did the Gospel not reveal them?
Koran is peace!
WHAT IS DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISLAM AND TODAY’S PRACTICES?
In comparing the teachings of Islam as derived from the Book of God to the practices taught and enforced by the popular Sunni and Shia faiths (1.2 Bn followers), we find that the list is quite extensive, with some of the highlights as follows:
In Islam, the requirement to be a Muslim is to simply accept and live according to the �Straight Path� (6:151-153), Vs. the Sunni or Shia 5-pillars which come from unauthorized books�
In Islam, abolishing Slavery is taught to be an act of righteousness (90:12-13), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which encourages slavery under war�
In Islam, women are never forbidden from praying or fasting during Menstruation (2:222), nor is there a specific dress code (i.e. the Headscarf) imposed on them beyond modesty, Vs. the Sunni and Shia which teach the undermining of women and forcing them to cover their hair and avoid praying or fasting at certain times…
In Islam, a man or women may leave a Will, after settlement of debt (4:12), Vs. Sunnis who refuse to accept wills if there are any direct descendants…
In Islam, Monogamy is the basis for normal relationships, while polygamy is only allowed in cases involving marrying the mothers of orphans under the man�s guardianship (4:3), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (Mut�a)…
In Islam, Divorce is enforceable only after a two-phase period, and it may be made nullified if the couple reconcile before the end of this period (65:1, 65:4), Vs. Sunni teachings that destroy families by allowing a divorce to occur on the spot with no waiting period and no nullification…
In Islam, Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (12:76), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which brutally amputate the hands causing disability…
In Islam, no one is allowed to be killed or Stoned for adultery (24:2), Vs. Sunni and Shia laws of stoning married adulterers to death…
In Islam, absolute Freedom of Faith is allowed (2:256, 10:99; 18:29; 88:21-22), Vs. Sunni and Shia requiring apostates to be killed and rejecting the practice of other faiths…
In Islam, people are acknowledged as being diverse and each is to be respected for his/her level of spiritual growth. A Submitter �Muslim� must work to attain the status of Faithful �Mumin� (49:14), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings that all followers of their religion must think, act, and even look the same (cult syndrome)…
In Islam, War can only be declared in cases of self-defence – no offensives (2:190), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings allowing raids and attacks on any people who are considered non-Muslim by their standards…
In Islam, Pilgrimage is a centre for gathering of nations and for all to witness the benefits of being together (22:27-28), Vs. Sunni and Shia bringing in polytheistic rituals and superstition (touching of black stone, circling 7 times, etc..)…
In Islam, a Year is a luni-solar count made of 365-days (17:12, 9:36), with all the seasons fitting-in-place Vs. Sunnis teaching it to be a lunar one based on 354 days which creates confusion of seasons and time�
In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (32:7), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases…
In Islam, music, statues, gold and silk are all Lawful(7:32-33, 16:116), Vs. Sunni beliefs forbidding silk & gold for men, and forbidding music & statues for all…
In Islam, rule of Government is under the constitution of the Qur’an through consultation and free-speech (5:48, 42:38). Vs. Sunni teachings which allow the rise of dictators or monarchs, and Shia teachings which uphold self-appointed religious leaders based on genealogy
Real Islam is the Koran. Support the Koranist cause!
Infected Phlegm is in fact a rather frustrated MPACuk moderator known as Musab – who may be one of the Bukhari Brothers. The man (oh yes!) who once proudly informed MPAC world that al-Muj were even better Muslims than himself (what modesty!).
Whoever he is, he is certainly yet another MPACuk sub-literate goon.
Yawn.