This article in the Sunday Telegraph made my blood run cold:
Accounts filed at the Charity Commission show that the Government paid a total of £113,411 last year to a foundation run by senior members and activists of Hizb ut-Tahrir — a notorious Islamic extremist group that ministers promised to ban.
The article focuses attention on three Hizb-ut-Tahrir dominated schools in which pupils are being indoctrinated into Hizbi ideology from the age of three. The Islamic Shakhsiyah Foundation, which runs the three schools in question, has been responsible for securing the public funding. The foundation’s lead trustee is Yusra Hamilton, a leading Hizb activist who is married to Taji Mustafa (real name Urutajirinere Fombo), the group’s chief spokesman in Britain.
At least three of the four trustees are Hizb members or activists, including Farah Ahmed, the head teacher of the Slough school, who has written in a Hizb journal condemning the “corrupt Western concepts of materialism and freedom”.
The three schools — in Tottenham, north London, and Slough, Berks — are run by the Islamic Shakhsiyah Foundation, a registered charity. The foundation’s lead trustee is Yusra Hamilton, a leading Hizb activist who is married to Taji Mustafa, the group’s chief spokesman in Britain.
At least three of the four trustees are Hizb members or activists, including Farah Ahmed, the head teacher of the Slough school, who has written in a Hizb journal condemning the “corrupt Western concepts of materialism and freedom”.
On their website, the schools say their “ultimate goal” and “foremost work” is the creation of an “Islamic personality” in children The creation of an “Islamic personality” is a key tenet of Hizb’s ideology.
The schools’ history curriculum states that children are taught that “there must be one ruler of the khilafah [caliphate]”. The schools’ website says that “in the glorious history of Islam… the Sharia was the norm”.
Children learn Arabic from the age of three. A spokesman for the foundation insisted that it was not a Hizb ut-Tahrir operation but involved “Muslim women from a wide variety of backgrounds”.
Members of the Hizbut Tahrir are free to indoctrinate their children in the confines of their own homes in any way they see fit. And if they wish to delude themselves into thinking that a predominantly religious education based on a doctrine of supremacism and non-integration with the wider community offers their children adequate preparation for a competitive world, that is certainly their right. But it is difficult to know how this clerical-fascist fringe, which is largely reviled and discredited in the British Muslim community, has managed to secure such huge amounts of public funding without recourse to subterfuge. Certainly the Department for Children, Schools and Families has been “played”.
These facts, uncovered in a report authored by the Centre of Social Cohesion, which is out next week, says that Hizb is creating a number of similar “front organisations” to win public funding and enlist support from mainstream politicians. We look forward to more revelations in the forthcoming report.
47 Comments
“This article in the Sunday Telegraph made my blood run cold:”
Articled sourced from anti-Muslim rag- check
“uncovered in a report authored by the Centre of Social Cohesion”
Giving validity to reports by extremist Douglas Murray- check
“this clerical-fascist fringe,”
Using terminology of extremist David T-check
Extremists refuting extremists
“But it is difficult to know how this clerical-fascist fringe, which is largely reviled and discredited in the British Muslim community, has managed to secure such huge amounts of public funding without recourse to subterfuge. ”
You can say the same about the Quilliam Foundation who recieve far more public funds (£1 million) and who Spittoon supports
Oh but wait by they are anti-Palestinian
There is a BIG difference:
1) HT believe the UK is dar-ul-kufr/harb
2) HT believe democracy is haraam and anyone who partakes in British elections becomes a kaafir.
3) HT believe the UK is at war with Islam and Muslims.
So why take money from the UK Govt you hypocrites?
The money comes from the same source doesn’t it? The Govt doesn’t have one pot of money for Quilliam and another pot for HT does it!
And what exactly has HT done for the Palestinians? They believe even raising funds for the Palestinians is haraam!
HT is a complete and utter disgrace!
Are you suggesting QF are ‘clerical fascists’ because that’s a new one and I thought I had heard them all.
Accusing anyone who dislikes HT of being anti-Muslim – check
Actually, the big difference is that state revenues are being used in one case to support a think-tank concerned with Islamist poltical extremism and the promotion of intercommunal good relations and social inclusivity; whilst on the other hand state revenues are effectively being used to promote the mis-education of children along the very narrow, medievalist and frankly non-inclusive syllabus provided by an identified extremist group; a group that lacks any real support even within their own community.
More broadly, the intension of education is to provide learners with the means by which they can make informed decisions for themselves. It is not about the instuction of young people, their indoctrination, into an ideology of hatred of difference and the Other that Hizb ut-Tahrir, along with other Islamists, want.
No but they are certainly” a fringe… which is largely reviled and discredited in the British Muslim community, has managed to secure such huge amounts of public funding ”
Calling groups like HT and MB “clerical fascists” is absurd because they arent run by ulema (clerics) but by laymen (doctors engineers ect) and fascism is a European political system. Using it to describe political movements outside Europe or impose western norms on Islamic societies is political illiteracy
this phrase is used by David T because he is a westerner with no understanding of other than European or Western political realities or concepts. Whats Faisal Gazi’s and others at Spitoons excuse to ignorantly parrot him?
ursame
And U R a bloody bore.
“Calling groups like HT and MB “clerical fascists” is absurd because they arent run by ulema (clerics) but by laymen (doctors engineers ect) and fascism is a European political system. “
Omar Bakri Muhammed certainly regarded himself as a cleric and a scholar and he was certainly a fascist. His ideas have framed the entire HT discourse for the last 25 years. And that discourse is based on the notion of the supremacy of a theocratic clerical elite class who also define a state’s authoritarian system.
Therefore the term “Clerical Fascists” is a an absolutely perfect description for HT’s ideology. Effendi is absolutely right.
Don’t talk such utter rot. You will be wanting to argue that blue is a “European” colour next.
Islamists persistently attempt this limitation of political and ideological descriptors to particular cultures. It is irritatingly stupid.
Let me get this straight: you say that non-Europeans cannot be fascist, or described as such, because “fascism is a European political system”. By this reasoning, are Chinese and Vietnamese communists not real communists because communism is also a “European political system”? What else does your moronic theory apply to? How about Capitalism? Are the Japanese and South Koreans not really capitalists either because Capitalism is a European thing?
I am awestruck by your stupidity. You are essentially arguing that political ideas and systems are race-specific!
haha, Munir is a complete and utter imbecile.
Agreed.
Urthesame. This is Imran. Please stop posting on Spittoon immediately. You are making the Party look foolish.
ws.
dear king ferdinand,
there is a giant continent across the ocean to the west of europe (it’s in the way if you try to sail to india)
i believe we are the first people to realise its existence.
yours sincerely,
christopher columbus
BTW: the tribespeople who are living there are just the right sort to work on sugar plantations – and they have lots of gold.
b’shalom
bananabrain
Bangladesh just banned these chumps and our government gives them tons of public money!
This, from two years past:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/education/article2199245.ece
(Hat tip, Alec M on HP)
This story is just terrifying. More Balkanisation in education.
Now fascists can run schools as long as they bamboozle no doubt well meaning but hopelessly naive Council Officials (Haringey Borough).
What next? A BNP run school?
And people wonder why there is a dangerous clerical fascist fringe amongst British Muslims??????
Imran
“Urthesame. This is Imran. Please stop posting on Spittoon immediately. You are making the Party look foolish”
To be absolutely fair, your doctrine of a totalitarean theocratic state pretty much does that anyway. You would be comical if it weren’t for the young minds you are leading into violent, women and non mulsim hating extremism. A plague on your house.
TCH:
please see my comment just above….
b’shalom
bananabrain
Isn’t this kaffir government great, Ive got a new kitchen now.
Effendi
Thanks for raising this. Couple of things:
1 – Even if the schools’ administrators (possibly teachers too?) weren’t HuT activists, the fact that the organisation running the schools is called the Islamic Shakhsiyah Foundation should leave our readers in no doubt. What with shakhsiyyah (شخصية) being Arabic for ‘personality’, the name of the foundation just happens to coincide (shock! horror!) with Taqi ud-Deen an-Nabhani’s famous 3 volume treatise, ash-Shakhsiyyah al-Islaamiyyah [here, here, here, here and here] (الشخصية الإسلامية). Who is an-Nabhani? Oh, only the founder of HuT, and this treatise was written as a kind of instruction manual corresponding to HuT’s ‘3 steps to Khalifah methodology/programme’:
The Shakhsiyah Foundation is obviously part of step one (”…incorporate the ideology in groups of individuals”), where people or, in this case children, are brainwashed with HuT ideology.
2 – If you go to their website and go to the ‘Teacher Training Services’ section, you’ll notice that they’ve been holding classes at Regent’s Park. Download their pdf info. pack and you’ll notice Abdul Hakim Murad is due to speak at one of their sessions in December. Someone should tell him.
You silly silly people.
Members of Hizb Ut Tahrir in this country are community activists. Unlike your cowardly lazy selves, who sit behind a PC with false pseudonyms, falsely and amateurishly condemning sincere individuals, the members of HT are transparent and active at the grass root levels of this society.
This article is excellent evidence of the social work individual members of HT are doing at the community level on many fronts, including the education front. Unlike you arm chair generals, or sell outs like Houriya Ahmed, who clearly does not mind being a political prostitute for men in the conservative party, members of HT are actually taking steps to increase the level of education and literacy for young Muslims and Non-Muslims in impoverished communities that exist in places like Tottenham, East London, Slough etc.
HT is a grassroots movement, so of course their members will occupy positions in local organisations which are normally static and so require dynamism, creativity and a catalyst to bring positive change in local communities, by focusing on a range of areas, from taking steps to increase levels of education to fighting drugs and giving jobs advice.
The members of HT are practical people who sense a problem in their local community and use legitimate mechanisms to help address those problems.
For sure, if you are a member of the Conservative party or linked to it in some shape or form, you will view these actions with a conspiratorial lens. When your paymasters say that they will proscribe HT if they come to power, you do their bidding by conducting shallow research to thwart the actions of sincere individuals who have spent over a decade working for good in their local communities.
The labour government tried to proscribe HT. But as John Reid put it, they had “egg on their faces” when taking the case to court. This is because HT is a non-violent organisation, which is shaped by Islamic sources from end to end. HT stands for the truth and speaks out against the corruption and injustice perpetrated by those in authority, such as the Pakistani and Bangladeshi governments.
The Muslim community has rejected the likes of Houriya Ahmed and the shallow amateurish research which comes out of the CSC, in the same way it has rejected the Quilliam Foundation. These organisations are the real fronts for an ideology which attempts and fails to pollute the purity of the Islamic way of life by inventing falsehood like seeking to Islamically legitimise homosexuality or claim the vast encyclopaedic array of Islamic sources have no view on how Muslims should manage their own affairs. Clearly they have failed to make any inroads into Muslim public opinion and so resign to patting themselves on the back for keeping people like Douglas Murray or Michael Gove happy.
You silly silly people.
In much the same way as members of the BNP are “community activists”.
Who daily produce reams and reams of often very original critiques of Islamism…
“False pseudonyms”? Hmmm… that will be “real names”, then.
Nothing false or amateur about the material on this site. Perhaps you could provide examples of such falsity and amateurishness? A link or two would be nice to back up your claims.
Have they been a doctor about this condition?
Where?
Utter tosh. The organisation that runs the schools is a front organisation for a collective, HT – not the endeavours of individuals who just so happen to also be – quite coincidentally – members of HT.
Incidentally, many educationalists would be seriously (and are) disturbed by a curriculum that is little more than the indoctrination of young children. It’s the sort of thing that used to happen in fascist countries, you know. No surprises there, then.
Ironically, for a group that has no respect for (amongst others) Christians, HT appear to be working out of Ignatius Loyola’s dictum: “Give them to us before they are seven and they are ours forever”. Many would regard such a sentiment as the very antithesis of the purpose of education, which is to enlighten and liberate, not enslave to dogma and indoctrinate.
For your information, education is not usually known as a branch of social work.
What a repellent, offensive and entirely facetious comment.
Bullshit. How dare you belittle and undermine the efforts of all the teachers, ancillaries, assistants and governors who work day and night in the state sector schools in the LEAs at question by setting your schools against theirs? If you want to play the numbers game, let’s get out the relevant and appropriate OFSTED reports, HMI reports and associated LEA resources and do a show-and-tell. You don’t stand a chance, sunbeam.
In other words, HT intend to set-up parallel and exclusivist organisations where they cannot infiltrate already extant organisations. Everywhere they will use these resources to try to capture the most vulnerable members of the Muslim community to HT’s orbit, effectively through a process of aid for support. Aka, pork-barrelling politics.
The members of HT are delusional individuals who hold to a set of neo-fascist ideals pretexted upon a set of warped, socially backward and offensive religious innovations. HT will utilise any and all means to achieve their supremacist and totalitarian ideals.
HT are a deeply conspiratorial organisation in and of themselves. HT hold in contempt all aspects of democracy and secularism. HT will utilise any and all means to drag any and all societies into their fascist dystopia, recommending especially infiltration and entryism into the armed forces, security apparatus and intelligence services in order to bring about coup- d’etat. HT are implicated repeatedly by most of the world’s states, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, with acting as a conduit to jihadi violence and “practical” struggle for a clerical fascist agenda.
Let me guess who you think the Conservative Party’s paymasters may be. Is it a word that starts with “J” and has four letters?
Actually that was not what John Reid meant – he meant that the then attempt to proscribe HT ahead of the completion of proper investigations by counter-terrorism and security agencies was misconceived and this led to “egg on faces”. Get your fact right.
Yes, that is correct, HT have always sided with genocidal Islamists in South Asia. You even whinged when the Bangladeshi state took exception to your blatant attempts to infiltrate the armed forces. Grow up.
Presumably with the same force that it rejects consistently the fascist agenda that you set,
Your obsessions with homosexuality at HT are truly telling, you know.
As for your distortion of the meaning of Shari’ah… well I would not be the first (nor the most authoritative) to point out that your dogmatic, literalistic and ignorant line is entirely at odds with the main thrust of Muslim religious scholarship now, or in the past.
Silly people are we?
And you are small-minded Islamist bigots who do untold damage to the Faith and the community of Believers.
Now, do go away, you racist, homophobic, misogynist scum.
Abu Faris,
Any reader can read through the thin veneer of shallow vocabulary you employ in your amateurish comments.
Clearly, you and your ilk have been rejected outright by the Muslim Community, again and again, making you arm chair wanabe academics or critic’s who have nothing better to do than spread falsehood about sincere people.
Shame on you.
More duplicity and out-right lies from HT on this subject to be had here:
http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/press-centre/press-release/sunday-telegraph-inaccurate-and-wrong-in-their-claims-about-ht.html
And “eny ful” can tell that you do not have a very good grasp of English, chum. Exactly what does this mean: “the thin veneer of shallow vocabulary”? Sounds good, means diddly-squat.
What is it with this obsession about “amateurishness”?
Go on, I dare you, try rebutting any of my statements .
Abdul Rehman,
HT are clerical fascists trying to balkanise and destroy my country.
It is a cancer, nothing more, nothing less.
Everytime you and other HT tools come on this site you get spanked and exposed for the sad little small minded defamers of a great religion that you are. A plague on your house.
Abu Faris is Fisk Daddy!
Brilliant work my friend. Let’s see how any of the HT professionals deal with your “amateurish comments”.
Abdur Rahman
Can you tell me what the foreign policy of your fantasy khilfah will be?
Does “Invitation and Jihad” ring a bell? : ) If not then read Nabhanis books again!
Oh and everyone knows what HT thinks of the British state.
Abu Faris. That was a fine, fine post.
Abdul Rehman. You are a moron. And, while I’m at it, it really irritates me that you people keep using the word ‘sincere’, as in ‘so-and-so is a sincere community activist’. In this context, what does sincerity have to do with anything? Plenty of genocidal lunatics from Pol Pot to Napoleon to Rudolf Hess have been sincere but that doesn’t diminsh their crimes in the slightest. The face that they ‘sincerely’ believed in what they did doesn’t make them right.
“In much the same way as members of the BNP are “community activists”
Your shallow mind can only make shallow and incorrect analogies. The BNP are racists who work to physically hurt the Muslim ummah in this country. For all your talk against the BNP, they actually use insane arguments created by the likes yourself, the CSC and Quilliam foundation to justify their hatred towards the Muslim community and Islam.
“Who daily produce reams and reams of often very original critiques of Islamism…” -> Self proclaimed originality does not make it original. “Critiques” – don’t make me laugh!
“False pseudonyms”? Hmmm… that will be “real names”, then.” -> You are obviously more literalist than those you call literalist.
“Nothing false or amateur about the material on this site. Perhaps you could provide examples of such falsity and amateurishness? A link or two would be nice to back up your claims.” -> The amateurish falseness is on clear display . Any reader can scan through most of your articles and conclude the same. You are blinded by your arrogance, shallowness and ideological stance, so it is clearly difficult for you to think out of the box on these matters.
“Have they been a doctor about this condition?” -> Again, yet more evidence of your one dimensional literalist nature.
“Where?” Go to their website for a clue Http://www.hizb.org.uk
“Utter tosh. The organisation that runs the schools is a front organisation for a collective, HT – not the endeavours of individuals who just so happen to also be – quite coincidentally – members of HT.” -> Apart from affiliating individuals to HT, you have no evidence for this. It’s like saying the organization you work for (assuming you do actually work ?) subscribes to the dogmatic literalist views you have subscribed to above, simply because you work for it. Obviously not.
“Incidentally, many educationalists would be seriously (and are) disturbed by a curriculum that is little more than the indoctrination of young children. It’s the sort of thing that used to happen in fascist countries, you know. No surprises there, then.” -> Have you actually checked their curriculum? NO . Have you actually spoken to Ofsted in detail about their findings? NO – Get your facts right.
“Ironically, for a group that has no respect for (amongst others) Christians, HT appear to be working out of Ignatius Loyola’s dictum: “Give them to us before they are seven and they are ours forever”. Many would regard such a sentiment as the very antithesis of the purpose of education, which is to enlighten and liberate, not enslave to dogma and indoctrinate.” -> Cleary you are good at copying and pasting out of books to sound “intellectual”. You obviously don’t understand what you are copying, as you have clearly shown how unenlightened and slavish your thoughts are to the ideology of your masters.
“For your information, education is not usually known as a branch of social work.” -> More evidence of the very literalism you condemn.
“What a repellent, offensive and entirely facetious comment.” -> Not repellent, offensive or entirely facetious as what she and her dwarfs (you etc) have written about Islam.
“Bullshit. How dare you belittle and undermine the efforts of all the teachers, ancillaries, assistants and governors who work day and night in the state sector schools in the LEAs at question by setting your schools against theirs? If you want to play the numbers game, let’s get out the relevant and appropriate OFSTED reports, HMI reports and associated LEA resources and do a show-and-tell. You don’t stand a chance, sunbeam.”
“In other words, HT intend to set-up parallel and exclusivist organisations where they cannot infiltrate already extant organisations. Everywhere they will use these resources to try to capture the most vulnerable members of the Muslim community to HT’s orbit, effectively through a process of aid for support. Aka, pork-barrelling politics.”
You silly person. Did you actually read the paragraph? Or like above and the pattern shown by people who run this site, simply copied it and gave it a false and amateurish interpretation? The latter is definitely true. Looks like you have been sitting in the sun (wherever you are) for too long. Too much sun beam is bad for your brain.
“The members of HT are delusional individuals who hold to a set of neo-fascist ideals pretexted upon a set of warped, socially backward and offensive religious innovations. HT will utilise any and all means to achieve their supremacist and totalitarian ideals.” -> The members of HT are sincere Muslims. They hold fast to the rope of Allah (SWT). Unlike you, they do not cower behind a pc and write falsehood. They are transparent in thought, action and person – globally Alhamdolillah.
“HT are a deeply conspiratorial organisation in and of themselves. HT hold in contempt all aspects of democracy and secularism. HT will utilise any and all means to drag any and all societies into their fascist dystopia, recommending especially infiltration and entryism into the armed forces, security apparatus and intelligence services in order to bring about coup- d’etat. HT are implicated repeatedly by most of the world’s states, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, with acting as a conduit to jihadi violence and “practical” struggle for a clerical fascist agenda.” -> HT work to re-establish the Khilafah in a non-violent manner in the Muslim world, on the method of Prophet (SAW). They work to remove the injustice, tyranny and corruption, legitimised by your ideology. Inshallah, they will succeed.
“Let me guess who you think the Conservative Party’s paymasters may be. Is it a word that starts with “J” and has four letters?” Only a shallow person like yourself would make such a guess. Again further emphasises your narrow nature and reading of world politics.
“Actually that was not what John Reid meant – he meant that the then attempt to proscribe HT ahead of the completion of proper investigations by counter-terrorism and security agencies was misconceived and this led to “egg on faces”. Get your fact right.” ->That is an incorrect literal interpretation. Patrick Mercer spelled it out clearly on Newsnight saying:
“if the evidence is not good enough or correct, we will be in a difficult position, and have egg on our faces” -> that is because they reviewed and tried to proscribe HT, but found no such evidence to support proscription because there isn’t any.
“Presumably with the same force that it rejects consistently the fascist agenda that you set,” -> The support for HT in the local community is clear. But here are some quotes from people or bodies which view HT objectively, unlike through a bias ideological lens you employ:
‘Hizb ut-Tahrir [HT] is an independent political party that is active in many countries across the world. HT’s activities centre on intellectual reasoning, logic arguments and political lobbying. The party adheres to the Islamic Shariah law in all aspects of its work. It considers violence or armed struggle against the regime, as a method to reestablish the Islamic State, a violation of the Islamic Shariah.’ [Restricted Home Office Documents 19/8/03, Released to Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain 1/6/05 under FOI Act]
‘Hizb ut-Tahrir is a completely non-violent organisation.’ [Craig Murray, the ex-British ambassador to Uzbekistan, Al-Jazeera, 17/5/05]
‘Hizb ut-Tahrir quite explicitly disavows violence as its means for achieving power.’ [John Schoeberlein, Director of Harvard University’s Central Asia program]
‘Hizb ut-Tahrir has shown dissatisfaction on the policies of the [Pakistan] government which is the right of each and every citizen…I am unable to understand as to how distribution of these pamphlets in the general public was termed as terrorism or sectarianism.’ [Multan Bench, Lahore High Court, March 2005]
‘Even now, senior officers aver that Hizb ut-Tahrir.. plays a “stabilising” role in certain areas’ [Dean Godson in The Times 8/2/2006].
“Your obsessions with homosexuality at HT are truly telling, you know.” -> Actually it is people like yourself and those who run this site, who have a clear obsession with homosexuality. To the extent that you try to justify it using Islamic principles. You obviously feel guilty about your condition.
“As for your distortion of the meaning of Shari’ah… well I would not be the first (nor the most authoritative) to point out that your dogmatic, literalistic and ignorant line is entirely at odds with the main thrust of Muslim religious scholarship now, or in the past.”-> Such as? And please don’t quote the list Majid Nawaz or Rashad quoted. Their junior essays have been dealt with on numerous occasions by numerous people. The six thousand scholars who attended the Khilafah conference would obviously beg to differ with you. They and all of orthodox Islamic thinkers, scholars and activists certainly do not subscribe to your dogmatic ideology.
Silly people are we? -> You have answered that yourself.
“And you are small-minded Islamist bigots who do untold damage to the Faith and the community of Believers” -> The last time I checked, you are the ones following those who try to legitimise alcohol, homosexuality, separation of Islam from life and many other ills which the “Faith and the community of Believers” have out rightly rejected.
You silly silly people.
Honestly, Abdu Rehman! Where to start!
Abdul Rehman
You have singularly failed to answer any point. Instead you have simply engaged in an extended bout of insults.
Is this the pinnacle of HT intellectualism?
Insulting people, AR, is not a good way to encourage any neutral observer to take even remotely seriously any substantive point you may be trying to make. Unfortunately, search as I have, I can find no such point in your last post at all.
Incidentally, on education matters I rather do know of what I write.
In any case, time for bed.
Evening all.
Curses! Caught out by mighty Hizbi intellectual giant! Drat!
A shame, I actually wrote it all myself. But you dream on.
Go n, do tell… You are aware that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever?
That is not what literalism means, AR. D’oh!
Evidently you did not understand a word of of what I wrote. Telling, that.
Abdul Rehman, the Charlie Drake of Islamism.
Oh, I did adapt the Charlie Drake gag… from a comment about Lee Barnes, actually. He of the BNP, who also inadvertently provides his audience with comedy gold of a similar quality to yours, AR.
Are you related, by any chance, to Lee Barnes?
Abu Faris,
Your last few emotional posts reveal the true nature of your intellectual capacity, which clearly is based on a desire for wanting acceptability from the likes of houriya ahmed and co. For you fail to accept objective argument and use emotion rather than clear thought to argue a case. It’s never too late to go back to basics.
Eh?
OK, Abdul Rehman, let’s take apart your last substantive post. I write “substantive” in the knowledge that this is stretching the term, as you have actually written absolutely nothing of any substance – and certainly not answered a single one of my earlier points – instead you engaged in a sustained bout of ad homina.
I did not make an analogy, I identified your depiction of HT as ludicrous and suggested that one might as well suggest that the BNP were “community activists”. This is an accepted method of argument called argumentum ad absurdum. You responded with personal abuse. Thus, you made no useful rebuttal at all. Unless one counts the following:
Quiote a lot of people think much the same of HT.
I mentioned the BNP once, in one sentence. Hardly much talk of them at all.
I think you need to substantiate this assertion with some examples of BNP spokespeople attributing their positions to such sources. Else it is pure self-serving rhetoric. In other words, can you link, with examples of the same, BNP statements to QF CSC sources? Can you show BNP activists quoting these sources? Of course you cannot.
Let’s put this one into context. You accused writers on Spittoon of being “lazy”. I pointed out that they produced a rather large corpus of often original material. You evidently do not understand the expression “original copy” – it means that it was written by the contributor, it was not cross-posted from elsewhere. You also clearly do not understand the word “critique”. It does not depend for its meaning upon whether you (or anyone else) agrees with the arguments contained within said critiques. A critique is a text type.
I am sorry if your lack of grasp of some fairly basic English expressions makes you laugh. I would regard it as a source of considerable shame myself. Tant pis, mec, mais chacun son gout. That’s French, by the by.
Again, I note with some concern your descent into personal abuse – made especially sad by your own inability to grasp the meaning of high frequency English expressions.
Now this is utterly hilarious (or depressing, if one is to be charitable – which is fard, after all):
Two things here. Please try to follow the next bit:
First, a pseudonym is a false name. Hence a “false pseudonym” is a false name which is false. Two negatives make a positive. So a false pseudonym is actually a real name.
I do hope I didn’t lose you along the way there. If I did might I suggest you get another grown-up to explain it to you again?
Second, you clearly do not understand the term literalist. I think you want to use the term pedant. I do apologise. I was being pedantic. On the other hand, you were being utterly illiterate.
I’m not sure if the abuse immanent in your comments serves your purposes especially well, either. However, for complete descent into ad homina there is little to beat this:
You like the word “amateur”, don’t you? And “shallow”. What is my ideological stance? Perhaps you would like to tell me what you do not like about my comments and articles here (and elsewhere)? I should be most interested (if not entirely enlightened, doubtless). Again, this sort of aggressive abuse will get you nowhere, AR. Do your handlers at HT know of the untold damage you are wreaking amongst potential recruits with this display of childish petulance?
Unfortunately, more evidence that you have a very poor grasp of English, actually. You wrote that HT members are transparent. Actually what I wrote was what is called in normal society a J.O.K.E.
What colour is the sky on your world, AR?
I should like to write that this is Jesuitical causistry of the highest order; but you would certainly not get the reference; and would doubtless accuse me of copying and pasting this from somewhere. Honestly, AR – is this the best counter you have got? School run by HT members, owned by an HT organisation, staffed by HT members is NOT an HT entity? Really? Get on, you’re ‘avin a laff, son.
Well since I am not a member of HT and therefore steer well clear of dogmatic literalism (unlike HT), the organisation I work for would hardly hold to such. On the other hand, whether I worked for an organisation or not would not determine who necessarily owned the organisation – and that is the topic at hand, not the affiliation of its workers. Incidentally, if you read the above article and the Times article from two years ago, you will note that HT are linked in more than one way to the schools concerned. SO this vain attempt to disassociate HT fails.
On the other hand, AR, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck…
Oh, and why – if HT is such a sterling enterprise, dedicated to the well-being of the ‘ummah, would you want to so strenuously deny HT’s involvement in these schools? Surely this would be a matter of some pride to you. Evidently not. Odd that.
The next section was a now typical piece of ad homina and an allegation of plagiarism. I dealt with it in an earlier post, to which I direct your attention.
I do not engage in plagiarism, AR. I think for myself and spend quite a considerable amount of time doing so. It comes with my professional turf. I am involved in education at quite a high level and it is beneath my dignity to respond to your oafish and ignorant remarks with anything other than plain derision. If you can show any evidence for your claim that I have not attributed sources, or plagiarised anyone, then show your examples here. Else retract your defamatory allegations of the same.
So in response to my comments is sustained personal abuse (again). I leave it to the other readers here (if they can be bothered to wade through all this) to make their own judgements at this point, AR.
I refer you to al-Qanaas al-Masri’s useful and pithy observation about the use of the adjective “sincere” by Islamist bigots like HT members of themselves. You evidently do not read others comments. Again the personal abuse, followed by an utter lie: HT are challenged in thought, duplicitious in action and entirely intellectually dishonest in person – at least if you are anything to go by – oh, and globally.
I note that you do not contradict me when I say that HT are committed to a non-democratic and authoritarian road to power and holding of state power. A shame so many in the Muslim world are not convinced of HT’s “peaceful” intentions – that must make you so frustrated.
Again, what is my ideological stance, please? You seem to know. Do share.
Yes it is. You have absolutely no support whatsoever.
Furthermore, not one of your “supporting” quotes relates in anyway to the subject at hand. Nor do you in any useful way address your earlier distortion of John Reed’s comments.
And what condition would that be, sweetie? Again the ad hominem abuse instead of reasoned argument. Are you ever going to actually respond to any of my earlier comments in some sort of substantive or useful way?
This is hilarious! You defend HT theology in terms of its adhesion to traditional scholarship by referencing HT theology!!!
Fantastic circular argument, there, AR. Brilliant example of how not to convince people you are right.
I am leaving aside the refusal on your part to apologise to a Muslim woman editor on this site for calling her a prostitute. I think it speaks volumes for the sort of people HT are – and is best left as a sort of warning about your grouplet.
To be blunt, I think you are an ill-educated, deeply unpleasant bigot, as it happens – but don’t let that get you down. Lots of people, I would venture, feel much the same way about you.
But hey, I’m getting all emotional again, ain’t I?
AR
Spanked and spanked hard by AF once again.
Oh dear.
Best you run along and get on with trying to poison the minds of youing Brits – quick now, people are increasingly rumbling what a nasty bunch of clerical fascists you are so time is short for your ‘activities’!
Oh dear AR, I have read some comprehensive demolitions in my time but you have just been ripped apart. Again, as illustrated above, your posts are completely deficient in substance and just a lot of hot air. A bit like a HT talk really. Like I said to you before just stick to banking or engineering, leave the politics and theology to others. Otherwise you will continue to make a fool of yourself with amateur, half – cooked explanations which even most children your age wouldn’t take seriously.
As expected. Keep deluding yourselves with your own praise.
God help any education system which employs or involves the likes of Abu Faris and co. You have been exposed as literalists, blinded by a shallow ideology resulting in amateurish ‘analysis’, which is presented using false names, clearly indicating the lack of confidence you have in your own material.
This is why you are a fringe minority rejected by the mainstream Muslim community.
Stick t
And you have exposed yourself as a sub-literate bigot, incapable of joined-up thinking, whose only resort when challenged is serial personal abuse.
Do go away. This site is for adults.
As any reader can see, you and your dogmatic neo conservative cult suffer from self deluded made up thinking, which the Muslim community has exposed many times.
God help our children if you or members of your cult are involved in education!
Reveal your true names if you are confident in what you write. You never will because you are cowards and deep down know the childish error of your ways.
You might be able to indoctrinate a 10 year old with your ideological narrative, but will and have clearly failed to influnce the pure thoughts of the Islamic community.
Shame on you
Shameful
Any ideas on when you will be addressing the points raised by Abu Faris?
As I wrote above: cue abuse from Abdul Rehman.
DO you have any intention of addressing any of my comments, AR?
Unlike the HT “educators” who are in the business of defrauding the taxpayer and of setting up front groups to protest against largely mythical changes in the curriculum, you mean?
Dullard.
AR…your getting worse by the day. What on earth was that rant about?
Abu Faris, Posted October 28, 2009 at 11:38 PM:
“And you have exposed yourself as a sub-literate bigot, incapable of joined-up thinking, whose only resort when challenged is serial personal abuse.”
Hm? Am I the only one that noted the irony in that statement?
Cohen
Quite plausibly you were – as to point out another’s failings is hardly to automatically be guilty of the same yourself.
The delicious irony of your incapacity to recognise the fallacy in your comment will – undoubtedly – be entirely lost on you.