The MCB: The Taint of Genocide

In May 1995 a Channel 4 documentary ‘Bangladesh, War Crimes File’ directed by David Bergman made allegations of the involvement of three British Bangladeshis in the genocide committed in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) in 1971.

Smile like you mean it

Chowdhury Mueen-Uddin

Chowdhury Mueen-Uddin, one of those individuals named in the documentary, was alleged to have been instrumental in plotting the assassinations of intellectuals, journalists and students with the al-Badr death squads, assisted by the Jamaat-e-Islami. The program included eyewitness accounts directly linking Mueen-Uddin to the murders of two men; Dr. M H Choudhaury, a professor at the University of Dhaka, and Najmul Huq, a journalist.

Channel 4 received a letter from Chowdhury Mueen-Uddin’s lawyers and very little of that documentary has been heard of since. Until today, when Delwar Hossain re-opened the discussion on the Bangladesh War Crimes and Mueen-Uddin’s involvement in them in an article on CiF:

A Channel Four documentary from 1995 made allegations of involvement by British Bangladeshis in the genocide. Chowdhury Mueen-Uddin, director of Muslim Spiritual Care Provision in the NHS, who was until recently vice-chairman of the East London Mosque and London Muslim Centre and was involved in setting up the Muslim Council of Britain, is one of the most prominent people to be accused of having carried out war crimes.

Mueen-Uddin is alleged to have been part of a group that abducted and “disappeared” people. Witnesses at the time describe seeing him kidnapping a university professor and a journalist in Dhaka during the war. Mueen-Uddin told the documentary makers “all the accusations being made against me are … utterly false and malicious, and either politically motivated or instigated otherwise”.

Having left the newly created country of Bangladesh for London, Mueen-Uddin, along with other members of JI set up Islamic Forum Europe, an avowedly Islamist organisation connected to the East London Mosque.

Being an extremely litigious sort of individual, published reports which recounted these allegations have almost always been silenced by a swift libel notice from Mueen-Uddin’s lawyers and it is very likely that the Guardian might also be forced to retract that article in a similar manner.

An article on the Channel 4 documentary contained this eyewitness account of how Mueen-Uddin was recognised by the relatives of one of his victims:

Another of Jamaat and Al-Badr’s tasks was to supply women as prostitutes for the Pakistani army. ‘They didn’t differentiate between Hindus or Muslims or anything,’ says Syeda Jebunessa Hoque, who worked at a tea garden in Sylhet. ‘They just grabbed any girl they could find and raped them. They raped girls in front of their fathers. Jamaat and Al Badr took thousands of women this way.’ But when Abu Sayeed is confronted with this evidence, he just claims it to be ridiculous.

In Dhaka, Al-Badr’s Operations-in-Charge was Chowdhury Mueen Uddin, who is now the Vice Chairman of the East London Mosque. At the time, Mueen worked as a journalist. ‘He was the first person to mention the formation of Al-Badr, before any other newspapers had any idea,’ says colleague Atiqur Rahman. Mueen was relatively new in Dhaka but was already well known in Feni. ‘We had informers who told us of his frequent visits to Al-Badr headquarters,’ says Professor Joynal Abedin, a member of the Mukti Bahini charged with reporting on Al-Badr and Jamaat. Another freedom fighter, Giasuddin Ahmed Nanu says, ‘We were given a list of ten or twelve people whom headquarters believed to be Al-Badr collaborators; Chowdhury Mueen Uddin was on the top of that list.’

During the final days of the occupation, the Pakistani army was on the verge of collapse, having been soundly beaten back by the Mukti Bahini and Indian army which was now fighting on their side. This culminated in Al-Badr’s last effort at destroying what would be the new country of Bangladesh, the infamous massacre of intellectuals in Rayerbazaar. Dolly Chowdhury recounts the day her husband, Moffazel Hyder Chowdhury, was taken away by Al-Badr. ‘They stormed into the house brandishing guns and with gamchas over their faces. While being taken away, my husband pulled down the gamcha from one of the men’s faces, I recognised him immediately. It was Chowdhury Mueen Uddin; I knew him because he used to come to our house to study.

The website GenocideBangladesh has an impressive catalogue of references, articles and citations on Mueen-Uddin’s alleged crimes. It reference this report on Mueen-Uddin from a New York Times article from January 1972:

[T]o his fellow reporters on the Bengali-language paper where he worked, Chowdhury Mueenuddin was a pleasant, well-mannered and intelligent young man…there was nothing exceptional about him except perhaps that he often received telephone calls from the leader of a right-wing Moslem political party. But, investigations in the last few days show that those calls were significant. For Mr. Mueenuddin has been identified as the head of a secret, commando like organization of fantatic Moslems that murdered several hundred prominent Bengali professors, doctors, lawyer and journalists in a Dhaka brick yard. Dressed in black sweaters and khaki pants, members of the group, known as Al-Badar, rounded up their victims on the last three nights of the war…Their goal, captured members have since said, was to wipe out all Bengali intellectuals who advocated independence from Pakistan and the creation a of a secular, non Moslem state.

Mueen-Uddin hasn’t done too badly for himself since coming to the UK after the Bangladeshi genocide. Here is his bio in his own words:

Director – Muslim Spiritual Care Provision in the NHS (2005 – now)

Formerly Deputy Director: the Islamic Foundation, Markfield, Leicestershire (1995 – 2005).

He is a graduate ( B.A ) from the University of Dhaka, Bangladesh and is married with 4 children.

Chowdhury Mueen-uddin has served as a member of the Multi Faith Joint National Working Party (MFJNWP) since its inception in 1998 and became a member of of its successor organisation the Multi Faith Group for Healthcare Chaplaincy (MFGHC). He has over 25 years of experience working with the community organisations and served and on the Board of a number of distinguished charities. These include among others Board member and vice chairman – As Shahada Housing Association, Board member Labo Housing Association and currently Gateway Housing Association,

Chairman – Muslim Aid (at present board member ,

Vice Chairman – East London Mosque and London Muslim Centre,

Chairman – Governing Body, the London East Academy ( a private secondary school).

He served as the Secretary General of the Council of Mosques UK and Eire for 2 terms (1984 – 1988) and was involved in setting up the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB).

He occassionally contributes to news papers and journals and some of his articles were published in journals in housing releated sector such as ‘Regeneration’ and ‘Planning’.

Delwar Hussain calls for the prosecution of the war criminals of East London for which he must be applauded.

Among the numerous ways in which consecutive Bangladeshi governments have lagged behind public opinion, the inaction with regard to trying the alleged war criminals is the least forgivable for many. Undeterred, Bengali civil society has continued to be vociferous in making sure this issue does not disappear.

Unless trials are seen to be free and fair, they will be perceived as political point-scoring by the Awami League. It is incumbent on the British Bangladeshi community, together with wider British society, to join the demands to bring the Bangladeshi war criminals to justice. It is also time to rethink a period of history which has continuing ramifications for today.

Until these allegations are cleared up once and for all, the British government should discontinue any further dealings with the MCB. And politicians should think carefully before they patronise East London Mosque and the London Muslim Centre in the credulous assumption that they symbolise quasi-democratic spiritual establishments representative of the Bangladeshi community of East London. Delwar Hussain’s article should be distributed to any politician, such as Boris Johnson and Lord Phillips, who have been foolish enough accept invitations from these establishments or are thinking of doing so.

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78 Comments

  1. Rashid
    Posted October 7, 2009 at 5:32 PM | Permalink

    This article is nothing but a coordinated smear attack by you and your neocon friends. It smacks of jealosy and it shows you guys will try your best to smear and attack any which way to achieve your aims.

  2. Effendi
    Posted October 7, 2009 at 5:38 PM | Permalink

    Read Delwar Hussain’s article in the Guardian.

    Are you saying the Guardian is a neocon paper?

  3. Rashid
    Posted October 7, 2009 at 5:47 PM | Permalink

    Douglas Murray and other hard right nuts have had their filth published on CiF, doesn’t make it neocon. But since you’ve all published this in a well coordinated fashion it would seem that you’ve planned to stich this guy up. The word kangaroo court comes to mind. Facts are asserted about this guy from a country where the truth is a precious commodity. And given the thuggish Awami League is now settling scores and setting up a Stalinist state, it’s good to see it has UK cheerleaders to help smear others

  4. Effendi
    Posted October 7, 2009 at 5:53 PM | Permalink

    It sounds to me like you believe the families of millions of Bengali Muslims who were murdered and their daughters raped should be denied any form of justice and any kind of investigation should be silenced by libel laws. By your definition, that makes you and your fellows neocons. Ironic, huh.

  5. Abu Faris
    Posted October 7, 2009 at 6:46 PM | Permalink

    It is among the surest indicators of… genocidal massacres. The perpetrators of genocide dig up the mass graves, burn the bodies, try to cover up the evidence and intimidate the witnesses. They deny that they committed any crimes, and often blame what happened on the victims.

    emphases added

    - Gregory H. Stanton, President, Genocide Watch

  6. Hassan
    Posted October 7, 2009 at 8:00 PM | Permalink

    Surely there are legal avenues that the claimants can make against Mueen-uddin? That serious crimes such as this can be alleged, and not followed up in a court of law, seems utterly absurd.

  7. The Great Satan
    Posted October 7, 2009 at 8:04 PM | Permalink

    excellent, let’ s see the MCB try and wiggle out of this one…

  8. Rashid
    Posted October 7, 2009 at 8:52 PM | Permalink

    Millions died you’re right, and yet the Pakistani Army gets off scot free. Instead you find a convenient scapegoat. Why has there been no legal challenge? It’s because it’s all untrue.

  9. 264u
    Posted October 7, 2009 at 9:06 PM | Permalink

    Why is poor Douglas Murray dragged into every discussion? What on earth does he have to do with any of this and you have the nerve to talk about scapegoats!

  10. freddy G
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 9:49 AM | Permalink

    obviously this fellow is controversial at least and should not hold any representative position.
    rashid- why should anyone want to smear him? why should anyone be jealous? and who wants to achieve what aims? and what do the Awami League thugs have against him?
    we would love to hear your valuable opinion on your above mentioned contentions regarding this “stitch up job”

  11. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 10:03 AM | Permalink

    Rashid

    Millions died you’re right, and yet the Pakistani Army gets off scot free. Instead you find a convenient scapegoat. Why has there been no legal challenge? It’s because it’s all untrue.

    Exactly- the perpetrators of the genocide were the secular Pakistani army but you wouldnt know that reading Spittoon. These hypocrites never call for Pakistani generals who committed genocide to be brought to justice. They go after the Jamaat because they are religious Muslims, work for Muslims in the UK and they oppose Israel. And of course no mention of the killing and raping of non Bengalis by the Mukthi Bahini.

    The fact that no charges have been brought and Mueniddin has threatened to sue for libel are in the absence of substantive proof, pretty good indications of how true they are.

    The last paragraph merely reiterates that this is all about Spitoons own agenda and not about getting justive for any victims. We can see this also by recalling that Spittoon holds people like Inayat Bungawala and Daud Abdullah who werent even born at the time or are from the Caribean responsible for what happened !!!

    Spitoons using the suffering of the Bengali peopl in 1971 for political point scoring is vile beyond belief.

  12. Effendi
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 10:09 AM | Permalink

    Spitoons using the suffering of the Bengali peopl in 1971 for political point scoring is vile beyond belief.

    Go and deny someone elses’s genocide please. Oh wait, you already are a serial genocide denier. Especially when it’s Jews, Africans or Bengalis who are the victims – and political Islamists are doing the killing.

    Your need to “Muslim-ise” your personal bigotry and race-hatred for political point scoring is vile and beyond belief.

  13. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 10:17 AM | Permalink

    Effendi

    Go and deny someone elses’s genocide please. Oh wait, you already are a serial genocide denier. Especially when it’s Jews, Africans or Bengalis who are the victims – and political Islamists are doing the killing.

    eh? When did I deny any genocide? I even explicitly stated in my post the word genocide in relation to 1971 TWICE.

    “the perpetrators of the genocide were the secular Pakistani army but you wouldnt know that reading Spittoon. These hypocrites never call for Pakistani generals who committed genocide to be brought to justice. ”

    Since you cant even get that right and claim about a person the oppose of what they just explicitly said, how do you expect us to believe your allegations here?

    Your need to “Muslim-ise” your personal bigotry and race-hatred for political point scoring is vile and beyond belief.

    truly insane -you are like a psychotic hysterical 5 year old child

  14. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 10:25 AM | Permalink

    And if you believe in justice for all and not political point scoring why arent you calling for ALL war criminals to be brought to justice ? Including Mukthi Bahini war criminals? Why arent you calling for bringing the killers of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman
    to justice too? I believe ALL war criminals should be punished whether they be in Sudan, Pakistan , Israel the US or the UK

    And the day Spitoon calls for Israeli generals indicted on war crimes to be pursued is the day we’ll know it isnt just a neo-con front.

  15. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 10:27 AM | Permalink

    Effendi

    Especially when it’s Jews, Africans or Bengalis who are the victims – and political Islamists are doing the killing.

    Just re-read this- are you imply the Palestinians are committing genocide against the Israelis? Good grief you zionist tools are laughable.

  16. Effendi
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 10:30 AM | Permalink

    But no one is calling for the Pakistani army to be excused of those crimes. Where do you read that?

    Subsequent Pakistani military government(s) protected it’s generals and the State of Pakistan is yet to make an official apology for it’s crimes against humanity let alone try individual military men from its East Bengal regiments. And unfortunately General Yahya Khan is long dead and is rotting in his grave.

    And certainly Henry Kissinger should be made to face an ICC tribunal.

    But all I’m seeing is your rather hysterical attempts to excuse the individuals perpetrators if and only they happen to be Jamaati (and the MCB), but not in the case of others. And I have no doubts as to what your agenda is.

  17. dawood
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 10:44 AM | Permalink

    And certainly Henry Kissinger should be made to face an ICC tribunal.

    And the great Hitch, Christopher Hitchens, has vocalised that most eloquently.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trial-Henry-Kissinger-Christopher-Hitchens/dp/1859843980

  18. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 10:46 AM | Permalink

    Effendi

    The Pakistani protected it’s generals and Pakistan is yet to make an official apology for it’s crimes against humanity let alone try individual military men from its East Bengal regiments. And unfortunately General Yahya Khan is long dead and is rotting in his grave.

    So why arent you pursuing the Pakistani army ? And writing articles calling for the generals many of whom are still alive to be brought to justice? Because your focus isnt justice for the vctims its political point scoring

    And certainly Henry Kissinger should be made to face an ICC tribunal.

    Yes – and why not Bush and Blair?

    But all I’m seeing is your rather hysterical attempts to excuse the individuals perpetrators if and only they happen to be Jamaati (and the MCB), but not in the case of others. And I have no doubts as to what your agenda is.

    I wrote this previously
    “I believe ALL war criminals should be punished whether they be in Sudan, Pakistan , Israel the US or the UK “.

    The fact you lie about/dont see this doesnt give a great deal of credence to your article does it?.
    Or perhaps you are unaware of what the word “ALL” means in the English language
    But to repeat I believe ALL war criminals should be punished. If people in Jamaat committed war crimes they should be punished if they were perpetrators.

    Some questions for you:

    -Do you think not also think Mukthi Bahinis who commiited war crimes should also be punished?

    - where is your article calling for Israeli generals to be punished for war crimes?

    - do you believe as you imply previously that the Palestinians are commiting genocide against the Israelis?

  19. Effendi
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 10:49 AM | Permalink

    Get a grip bleh, you’re all over the place.

    Learn from your superiors. Here is Bungles defending Mueen-Uddin:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/users/inayat/comments

  20. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 10:55 AM | Permalink

    Get a grip bleh, you’re all over the place

    Given you attribute to me the opposite of what I wrote thats pretty rich

    And of course no answer to my questions
    -Do you think not also think Mukthi Bahinis who commiited war crimes should also be punished?

    - where is your article calling for Israeli generals to be punished for war crimes?

    - do you believe as you imply previously that the Palestinians are commiting genocide against the Israelis?

    - why should Kissinger be taken to the ICC and not Bush and Blair?

    Just more silly point scoring. Typical

  21. Abu Wannabe Arab
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:01 AM | Permalink

    All war criminals should be punished but the purpose of this piece is to shed light on a case which is not well known. Furthermore, Pakistani generals and Zionist leaders are not setting up front organizations claiming to represent British Muslims. Hence such an exposure is necessary.

  22. Effendi
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:04 AM | Permalink

    Do you think not also think Mukthi Bahinis who commiited war crimes should also be punished?

    No I don’t, because they were protecting their people from a brutal genocidal force who had planted itself on East Bengal soil and were systematically committing genocide and mass-rape of women and children. Aided and abetted by the home-grown al-Badr death squads and the Jamaat-e-Islami, who are now comfortably ensconced in East London Mosque and the London Islamic Centre.

    Do you think the Iraqis who fought the invading US army should be punished? I don’t.

  23. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:05 AM | Permalink

    Bleh,

    Next you play whataboutery with issues of genocide, first re-read what I quoted above from the President of Genocide Watch. You can find it here:

    http://www.spittoon.org/archives/2874/comment-page-1#comment-12505

  24. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:08 AM | Permalink

    Abu Wanabe Arab

    Zionist leaders are not setting up front organizations claiming to represent British Muslims

    Are you serious? What do you think Spitoon is !!

    And incidentally given the Labour Party launched the criminal attack on Iraq (which unlike these allegations is undeniable fact) as well as backing genocidal sanctions before that do you agree it has no right to say it represents British Muslims in any way and that all Muslim Labour members are accomplices to genocide?
    Thats certainly the logic of your statement

  25. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:15 AM | Permalink

    Abu Faris

    Next you play whataboutery with issues of genocide, first re-read what I quoted above from the President of Genocide Watch. You can find it here:

    whataboutery!!!! implying that some genocides/ war crimes are not important and should be ignored or not treated as seriously as others.
    You are a vile vile individual Abu Faris

    Im not quite clear how refusing to condemn Choudry Muineddin in the absence of actual substantive proof is denying genocide unless you believe 1971 being a genocide hangs on CM participating in it or not

    “try to cover up the evidence and intimidate the witnesses. They deny that they committed any crimes, and often blame what happened on the victims.”

    Sounds exactly like the Israelis and their spitoon appesers- Effendi even implied that THEY are victims of genocide at the hands of the Palestinians

  26. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:15 AM | Permalink

    Given you attribute to me the opposite of what I wrote thats pretty rich…

    You are claiming your interlocutors attribute the opposite of your meaning, or do not understand what you mean; when – in point of fact – they generally understand perfectly well what you mean and happen to completely disagree with it.

  27. Abu Wannabe Arab
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:17 AM | Permalink

    Bleh you really are thick. British MPs represent their constituents not British Muslims. Spittoon has never claimed to represent British Muslims either nor is it run by Zionist generals of the IDF or old Pakistani generals either. So what the fuck are you talking about.

  28. Effendi
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:18 AM | Permalink

    Sounds exactly like the Israelis and their spitoon appesers- Effendi even implied that THEY are victims of genocide at the hands of the Palestinians

    huh? Where? I haven’t even mentioned Palestine/Israel on this thread.
    You seem a little flustered, old boy. Time for your sweet milky tea and a lie down.

  29. Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:20 AM | Permalink

    What in Valen’s name does Israel have to do with this? Take a mossey on down to Harry’s Place, and you’ll see a slightly more articulate attempt to shut down the discussion by insisting that this is a civil matter in a far away country about which we know little.

    The story can be broken into two parts: alleged genocidaires not only operating with impunity in this country, but using its safety and security as a means to plan other regional wars; the aggressive pursuit of illiberalism through British libel laws.

    Guess which lines racial arsonists choose to support.

  30. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:21 AM | Permalink

    whataboutery!!!! implying that some genocides/ war crimes are not important and should be ignored or not treated as seriously as others

    This is exactly what you are arguing, actually.

    You are a vile vile individual Abu Faris

    Learn to punctuate, Bleh.

  31. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:21 AM | Permalink

    Abu Wanabe Arab

    Bleh you really are thick. British MPs represent their constituents not British Muslims.

    Are you seriously suggesting they dont represent their British Muslim constituents?

    Spittoon has never claimed to represent British Muslims either nor is it run by Zionist generals of the IDF

    Are you serious? Its supported and run by a bunch of zionist neo cons

  32. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:27 AM | Permalink

    Abu Faris – learn to read

  33. dawood
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM | Permalink

    What in Valen’s name does Israel have to do with this? Take a mossey on down to Harry’s Place, and you’ll see a slightly more articulate attempt to shut down the discussion by insisting that this is a civil matter in a far away country about which we know little.

    Alec, I’ve seen it. It’s despicable. Have you seen Bungle’s attempts on “How to Excuse a Genocide”?

    “I was born in the UK and am not Bangladeshi, so to be honest, I very rarely think about the 1971 war. I reckon it is of much more import to those of Pakistani/Bengali backgrounds than to me.

    I do nothing whatsoever to bring justice to Muslims in East Pakistan. I have enough on my plate here in the UK.”

    Yeah right. I guess there was not enough on his plate when he advocated the ideology of the Hamas in Palestine and Hizbollah in Syria or the Jamaat – which has been throughout his career. His plate must suddenly look very full when the Jamaat and his confrères in the MCB are collared.

    Pure wanker.

  34. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:36 AM | Permalink

    Effendi

    huh? Where? I haven’t even mentioned Palestine/Israel on this thread. You seem a little flustered, old boy. Time for your sweet milky tea and a lie down.

    you said
    “Oh wait, you already are a serial genocide denier. Especially when it’s Jews, Africans or Bengalis who are the victims – and political Islamists are doing the killing. ”

    Implying the Palestinians are commiting genocide against the Israelis ! Since you linked it with whats happening in Darfur, in Bangaldesh and you used “and political Islamists” not “or political Islamists”
    Insane
    and still no answer to the questions:

    -Do you think not also think Mukthi Bahinis who commiited war crimes should also be punished?

    - where is your article calling for Israeli generals to be punished for war crimes?

    - do you believe as you imply previously that the Palestinians are commiting genocide against the Israelis?

    - why should Kissinger be taken to the ICC and not Bush and Blair?

  35. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:38 AM | Permalink

    Bleh

    Howvery tiresome of you.

    No-one understands you; everyone reads the opposite of your intended meaning. I entirely sympathise. I would suggest some adult education classes in English.

    You know what they say? A bad workman blames his tool. So, I shan’t blame you, Bleh – despite the fact that you are one almighty tool.

  36. Effendi
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:40 AM | Permalink

    “Implying the Palestinians are commiting genocide against the Israelis !”

    Nice try, but pretty desperate. By Jews, I meant the Holocaust, which you deny. Or at least you support the MCB’s boycott of HMD.

    And btw, I have answered the Mukti Bahini question, because it was relevant to this thread.

  37. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:41 AM | Permalink

    dawood

    Yeah right. I guess there was not enough on his plate when he advocated the ideology of the Hamas in Palestine and Hizbollah in Syria or the Jamaat – which has been throughout his career. His plate must suddenly look very full when the Jamaat and his confrères in the MCB are collared

    Given the wars in Lebanon and Palestine were ongoing while 1971 happened before he was probably born why on earth would he mention the latter and not the former? Which politician or public figure ignore wars and killing happening now and goes on about wars that happened years ago (unless its your zionist masters trying to divert attention from their crimes and genocide against the Palestinian people by brininging up the holocaust)

  38. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:43 AM | Permalink

    Bleh,

    I see there is no improvement in your comprehension skills since last you commented:

    mplying the Palestinians are commiting genocide against the Israelis !

    Now, to my mind – and correct me someone if I’m completely off-beam here – reference to a genocide against Jews is a reference to the Holocaust. The implication being, Bleh, that you are a Holocaust denier.

    Correct inference is such a bugger, ain’t it? Keep trying.

  39. dawood
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:45 AM | Permalink

    “Given the wars in Lebanon and Palestine were ongoing while 1971 happened before he was probably born why on earth would he mention the latter and not the former? “

    Rubbish. It’s got nothing to do with age and everything to do with the fact that the founders of the MCB include one Choudary Mueen-Uddin who is Jamaati and slightly tainted, shall we say, by his past.

  40. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:51 AM | Permalink

    Effendi

    Nice try, but pretty desperate. By Jews, I meant the Holocaust, which you deny. Or at least you support the MCB’s boycott of HMD.

    Oh dear. You used “and political Islamists” – not “or”- which implies they committed the actions which implies you think the Israelis are subject to genocide.

    I dont deny the Holocaust -you seem to think inventing new lies about people is a useful debating tactic But still it shows how easily you make wild accusations and so how much credence we can give to your article on here.

    I think the MCB had a good point about making it a general genocide day rather than focusing on one groups suffering (its perverse adopting racist criteria to condemn racism) as indeed did a sizeable number of the British people.

    But your such a slave of the zionist lobby youd complain if others are treated equally to them. Or maybe you think beleiving all victims of genocide should be commemorated equally is “holocaust denial” (!)

    Can you explain why the deaths of Jews should be given precedence over the deaths of Bengalis, Rwandans or Bosnians? By focusiin on one genocide you belitlle the victims of the others

  41. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:56 AM | Permalink

    dawood

    Rubbish. It’s got nothing to do with age and everything to do with the fact that the founders of the MCB include one Choudary Mueen-Uddin who is Jamaati and slightly tainted, shall we say, by his past

    Yes and Spitoon bringing this up (while ignoring for example the Gujurat genocide of 2002 -not 40 but 7 years ago- carried out by groups affiliated to Britains leading Hindu organistation the Hindu Forum of Britain) has everything to do with the infighting of the Bangladeshi political scene/ its neo-cons beliefs.

  42. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:59 AM | Permalink

    Effendi

    Nice try, but pretty desperate. By Jews, I meant the Holocaust, which you deny. Or at least you support the MCB’s boycott of HMD.

    Hehe. Thanks for exposing the real reason you oppose the MCB – because it supports the Palestinians -enemies of your paymasters!

  43. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 11:59 AM | Permalink

    Can you explain why the deaths of Jews should be given precedence over the deaths of Bengalis, Rwandans or Bosnians? By focusiin on one genocide you belitlle the victims of the others

    So now we should either mention every genocide since humanity first walked the Earth when we mention any particular genocide?

    More whataboutery from the literacy-skills challenged Bleh.

  44. Effendi
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:01 PM | Permalink

    “Oh dear. You used “and political Islamists” – not “or”- which implies they committed the actions which implies you think the Israelis are subject to genocide.”

    No I really meant the Holocaust. :D

    Can you explain why the deaths of Jews should be given precedence over the deaths of Bengalis, Rwandans or Bosnians? By focusiin on one genocide you belitlle the victims of the others

    That’s interesting. Why should it make me a slave of the “Zionist Lobby” if I observe Holocaust Memorial Day? That must explain why you deny the Holocaust.

    I certainly observe secular ceremonies and functions to mark the victims of the Bangladesh Genocide of 1971. And I would certainly do the same for the Bosnians and the Rwandans.

    And I can say how clearly this exposes your and Bunglawala’s logic. It goes back to my point. That people like you and Inayat Bunglawala are serial genocide deniers. Especially when the victims are Jews, Africans or Bengalis and when political Islamists are the perpetrators.

  45. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:01 PM | Permalink

    your paymasters!

    You know them? That’s useful. Could you have a word with them and let them know I have recently changed my bank details?

    Thanks in advance.

  46. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:01 PM | Permalink

    dawood

    Rubbish. It’s got nothing to do with age and everything to do with the fact that the founders of the MCB include one Choudary Mueen-Uddin who is Jamaati and slightly tainted, shall we say, by his past.

    Right so the Tories should go on and on about Suez and not mention whats happening in Afghanistan and Labour should spend the next 40 years going on about the invasion Iraq regardless of whats actually happening in the world

  47. Effendi
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:03 PM | Permalink

    “Hehe. Thanks for exposing the real reason you oppose the MCB – because it supports the Palestinians -enemies of your paymasters!”

    Yeah, the Jooooooooooos! Always the Jooooooooooos!

  48. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:08 PM | Permalink

    Can you explain why the deaths of Jews should be given precedence over the deaths of Bengalis, Rwandans or Bosnians? By focusiin on one genocide you belitlle the victims of the others

    Abu Faris

    So now we should either mention every genocide since humanity first walked the Earth when we mention any particular genocide?

    Oh dear looks like Abu Faris is belitlling the genocide of Bengalis.
    Perhaps because the genocides I mentioned should be mentioned because they took place in 1971, 1994 and 1992-5 and the holocaust, which should also be mentioned, took place 1942-1945

  49. dawood
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:08 PM | Permalink

    “Right so the Tories should go on and on about Suez and not mention whats happening in Afghanistan and Labour should spend the next 40 years going on about the invasion Iraq regardless of whats actually happening in the world”

    I think you’ll find that the rather major difference is, none of the people who were involved in the Suez or Afghanistan sit on the board of the Tory or Labour party.

    But that’s not the case with certain Jamaati war criminals who are still keeping seats warm on the board of the MCB, is it?

  50. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:09 PM | Permalink

    Right so the Tories should go on and on about Suez and not mention whats happening in Afghanistan and Labour should spend the next 40 years going on about the invasion Iraq regardless of whats actually happening in the world

    Let me get this straight, your argument is that if an event happened at some prior time – regardless of the enormity of that event (genocide, for example) – we should all ignore it because it happened a long time ago in a country of which we know little (at least for some of us)?

    Now, there’s convenient! Especially if you may have been involved in such events and now hold some apparent community authority in this country.

  51. Effendi
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:11 PM | Permalink

    “Oh dear looks like Abu Faris is belitlling the genocide of Bengalis.”

    No, that would be Inayat Bunglawala and the MCB. Oh and you, of course.

  52. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:11 PM | Permalink

    Effendi

    Yeah, the Jooooooooooos! Always the Jooooooooooos!

    Since you focus on the Jews, treating the loss of their lives as somehow worse than others and opposition to their racist state as the worst thing possible- thats pretty rich.

  53. Effendi
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:18 PM | Permalink

    Since you focus on the Jews treating the loss of their lives as somehow worse than others and opposition to their racist state as the worst thing possible- thats pretty rich.

    “Somehow worse”. Curious phrase. The only person who *focuses* on Jews on this thread is you, and your staunch avowal to deny the Holocaust because of the “Zionist Lobby”.

  54. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:18 PM | Permalink

    “Oh dear looks like Abu Faris is belitlling the genocide of Bengalis.”

    Efendi

    No, that would be Inayat Bunglawala and the MCB. Oh and you, of course

    Its you that opposes making the Bengali genocide (and incidentally there was a British made genocide in 1940s Bengal you dont much mention) equal to all others by having a genocide rather than exclusivist Holocaust Memorial Day.

  55. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM | Permalink

    No cigar I’m afraid, Bleh. I am not in the business of denigrating or denying genocides (quite the opposite, actually).

    Unfortunately, your desire to meaninglessly point-score has yet again collided with your woeful comprehension skills to deliver silliness. Now, do try to keep up.

  56. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:21 PM | Permalink

    I take it you don’t much like Jews, Bleh?

  57. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:22 PM | Permalink

    I think you’ll find that the rather major difference is, none of the people who were involved in the Suez or Afghanistan sit on the board of the Tory or Labour party.

    But that’s not the case with certain Jamaati war criminals who are still keeping seats warm on the board of the MCB, is it?

    You mean like members of the MCB like Dawud Abdullah and Inayat Bungawala who had nothing to do with the 1971 war – who spitoon of course focus on because they are pro-Palestinian

  58. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:24 PM | Permalink

    Abu Faris

    I take it you don’t much like Jews, Bleh?

    yeah its the new anti-semitism – believing non-Jewish lives are equal to Jewish ones.

  59. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:26 PM | Permalink

    You mean like members of the MCB like Dawud Abdullah and Inayat Bungawala who had nothing to do with the 1971 war – who spitoon of course focus on because they are pro-Palestinian

    Are you high on something, Bleh?

  60. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:29 PM | Permalink

    yeah its the new anti-semitism – believing non-Jewish lives are equal to Jewish ones.

    .

    So, you believe that Jewish lives are not equal to non-Jewish lives?

  61. Effendi
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:30 PM | Permalink

    “Its you that opposes making the Bengali genocide (and incidentally there was a British made genocide in 1940s Bengal you dont much mention)”

    It was a famine, not a genocide. Big difference. But what do you care – it was only Bengalis who died.

    “You mean like members of the MCB like Dawud Abdullah and Inayat Bungawala who had nothing to do with the 1971 war”

    Haha, nice try. But have you read the original post?

    yeah its the new anti-semitism – believing non-Jewish lives are equal to Jewish ones.

    No it’s the old anti-semitism. Just new anti-semites .

  62. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:44 PM | Permalink

    Gosh, Bleh’s gone. Must be the end of breaktime. Not sure if I approve of letting Year 10 use the internet when they are doing detention; but there we go.

  63. Ahmed Fieldgate-St
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:50 PM | Permalink

    I would love to kick the Jamatis out of East London Mosque.

  64. Abu Wannabe Arab
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 12:56 PM | Permalink

    Or just kick them in the knack shack.

  65. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 1:04 PM | Permalink

    Effendi

    It was a famine, not a genocide. Big difference. But what do you care – it was only Bengalis who died.

    Oh boo hoo.. whoah is me ..I am a victim (even though I wasnt born at the time). Spare us your pathethic victimhood and contempt for Bengalis. I care because I care about the suffering of Muslims.

    Since it was Muslims who suffered why do you care? You dont give a shit about their sufferings elsewhere – you dont even give a shit about Bengali Muslims suffering given your contemptous dismissal of the genocidal British famine and the fact you spend a great deal of your time demonising British Bengali Muslims and attacking their major institutions. And your head Douglas Murray wants to ban Bengali Muslims from entering the UK. Yet you potray yourself as defenders of Bengali Muslims – give me a break.

    Faisal Gazi (aka effendi) isnt even from Sylhet where 99% of British Bengalis hail from originally- so how is he a representative of them? Then again neither is someone we could genuiniely say does represent them – their local MP George Galloway :)

  66. bleh
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 1:06 PM | Permalink

    Effendi

    No it’s the old anti-semitism. Just new anti-semites .

    Thats rich given you Spittoon , harrys place , Douglas Murray and all your cohorts are purveyors of the new anti-semitism – Islamophobia

  67. Effendi
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 1:07 PM | Permalink

    “Spare us your pathethic victimhood and contempt for Bengalis. I care because I care about the suffering of Muslims.”

    By denying that a genocide of Bengalis ever happened and by defending the perpetrators of the genocide?

    That’s the Islamist way of showing you care about the suffering of Bengali Muslims. You have learnt well from Inayat Bunglawala.

  68. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 1:08 PM | Permalink

    Ducked out of double Woodwork on a toilet pass, eh Bleh?

  69. Abu Wannabe Arab
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 1:10 PM | Permalink

    So Faisal Ghazi is claiming to represent sylhetis now. What is this Islamist obsession with representation

  70. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 1:10 PM | Permalink

    I notice that in Bleh’s whataboutery list of genocides and mass murders (that we must mention if we are to ever mention any genocide), he is careful to avoid mention of recent events in Darfur. Events that are a prima facie case of Islamist violence, rapine and mass murder against fellow Muslims.

  71. Chudary Moeen Uddin
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 1:14 PM | Permalink

    “Events that are a prima facie case of Islamist violence, raping and mass murder against fellow Muslims.”

    Ooh yes, more of that please!

  72. Posted October 8, 2009 at 1:16 PM | Permalink

    Faisal Gazi (aka effendi) isnt even from Sylhet where 99% of British Bengalis hail from originally- so how is he a representative of them? Then again neither is someone we could genuiniely say does represent them – their local MP George Galloway

    The only people I represent is me, myself and I.

  73. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 1:26 PM | Permalink

    I remain revolted by the callous indifference embodied in Bungle’s response to this story.

    However, am I mistaken if I also detect an attempt on the part of Mr Bean to distance himself from Mueen Uddin? Bungles has an alibi – he was not there, honest guv – he’s a British-born Islamist whose parents, contingently, happen to come from what was East Pakistan. Further more, he has been far too busy to take notice of the fact that he may have been working bloody-hand-in-glove with an alleged war criminal and murderer.

    You can almost hear, the shuffling of Bungle’s shiny, black, patent slip-ons as he edges further and further away from Mueen Uddin.

  74. qidniz
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 6:44 PM | Permalink

    Off-topic:

    Bungles has an alibi – he was not there, honest guv – he’s a British-born Islamist whose parents, contingently, happen to come from what was East Pakistan.

    Inayat’s family is Bengali? With a name like Bunglawala, I thought they were Gujarati (or thereabouts.)

  75. Abu Faris
    Posted October 8, 2009 at 9:48 PM | Permalink

    You are quite right. My bad:

    I was born in the UK and am not Bangladeshi, so to be honest, I very rarely think about the 1971 war. I reckon it is of much more import to those of Pakistani/Bengali backgrounds than to me.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/07/bangladesh-war-crimes?commentid=8c0a35c2-0ef9-4d58-940e-0141fec3253e

    Apologies to Inayat.

  76. facts
    Posted October 9, 2009 at 4:28 PM | Permalink

    “During the final days of the occupation, the Pakistani army was on the verge of collapse, having been soundly beaten back by the Mukti Bahini and Indian army which was now fighting on their side”

    Give it was East Pakistan at the time how could the Pakistani army be occupying its own country? you make it sound like they were the invaders not the Indian army.

    Unless you believe Bangladesh belongs to India

  77. Abu Faris
    Posted October 9, 2009 at 4:54 PM | Permalink

    Give it was East Pakistan at the time how could the Pakistani army be occupying its own country?

    Oh, please! You could argue that about any army of occupation conducting military operations against a subject people.

  78. Muqtar
    Posted October 9, 2009 at 5:31 PM | Permalink

    Confession of a Pakistani soldier from 1971:

    “we were told to kill the hindus and Kafirs (non-believer in God). One day in June, we cordoned a village and were ordered to kill the Kafirs in that area. We found all the village women reciting from the Holy Quran, and the men holding special congregational prayers seeking God’s mercy. But they were unlucky. Our commanding officer ordered us not to waste any time.”

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