It’s not often that I find myself agreeing with anything from Sky News, but their Tim Marshall has written a fantastic blog entry about the recent fighting in Gaza between Hamas and the group Jund Ansar Allah.
Thirty Palestinians killed. Women and children caught in the crossfire. Missiles fired at a Mosque. Muslim prisoners ‘executed’ in cold blood. A massacre. Media restrictions.
A familiar tale? Indeed. International outrage and demonstrations in the streets of London? Nope.
And why might that be? Why it’s simple. The Palestinians were were killed by Palestinians and, it would appear from the lack of reaction that in those circumstances their lives are cheap, but when they are killed by Israelis it is an outrage.
His point is a powerful one, why doesn’t it matter that two groups fought a massively violent struggle in the heart of Gaza and doubtlessly killed many innocents? There is plenty of righteous anger when the Israeli army brutally oppresses Palestinians but when it is another group of Palestinians (or Iraqis) doing the oppressing then there is silence. Do the deaths of Palestinians matter less when they come at the hands of non-Israelis?
As Marshall puts it,
In the assault Hamas desecrated holy ground, firing rocket and after rocket at the Mosque, some hit surrounding houses. It would be reasonable to assume that at least one Holy Koran may have been damaged.
After they took the building they rounded up the survivors. Mobile phone footage shows what appears to be Hamas men ‘executing’ some of them.
It is not hard evidence, but local reporters say that is what happened, and the footage is certainly of the aftermath of the attack. Audio material has Hamas commanders ordering the killings.
I put ‘executed’ in quotation marks as in this context, ie, the killing of someone, it is a legal term. But in the context of what Hamas did, perhaps it should be substituted for murdered.
And where is the outrage about these murders. The marches, the petitions, the calls for a boycott, the conspiracy theory of a war against Muslims, ad infinitum? I hear just the wind blowing across the freshly dug graves. Because unless the Israelis kill them, people don’t care.
25 Comments
I think you’re being a bit unfair Yossarian.
I’m sure that as we speak Azad Ali is writing a blog on this for the IFE site, Bungles’ sister is ghost-writing another CiF piece for him and Moazzam Begg is planning vigorous demonstrations in central London in protest. After all, I wouldn’t expect anything less from such seasoned and committed human rights activists.
the take down of the Jund Ansar Allah was a stroke of brilliance by Hamas, who while stepping up their efforts to gain international legitimacy, have now defeated an AQ affiliate in their own midst, thus showing them to be the vanguard against the ‘real’ extremists of AQ. Time magazine have an interesting piece on this:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1917809,00.html
Many of the Jund guys were former Hamas and according to an Al-Azhar prof:
“The countries that fund these groups think they are funding moderate Salafist groups and they never know when these individuals will shift from missionary work to Jihad,”
“I expect such violent incidents to spread… Despite Hamas’s attempts to uproot these groups, they will not be able to completely control them.”
This could be a crucial moment in the almost inevitable international ackowledgement of the legitimacy of a genocidal terrorist group….
Tim Marshall is a ludicrously partisan anti-Muslim hack (as you would expect from someone writing for a Murdoch media outlet) who never misses a chance to bash Muslims
That you quote him is highly instructive to yours and Spittons worldview
is Shafa short for Shafaqat? I have a friend of the same name from Sri Lanka, where are you from?
But you consider all Palestinian life cheap regardless- so why do you care who kills them? Zionist absolutely love stuff like this happening because it feeds into the world view that they wish to project of all Arabs/Muslims as savages and barbarians.
You mean like how Americans go on about the 3,000 killed by foreigners on 9/11 while ignoring the over 26,000 Americans murdered by fellow Americans every year?
The exact same is true when a Palestinians kills an Israel and when a Israeli kills an Israeli – totally different reactions. Likewise there is outrage when a synagogue is attack by non-Jews but silence and no outrage when Neuteri Karta synagogues are attacked by zionists.
And of course you are guilty of the same hypocrisy- bringing up Palestinian deaths at the hands of Palestinians while ignoring the far greater deaths at the hands of the Israelis
The fact you mention this event while ignoring the Israeli blockade of Gaza which is starving its children says it all
The Great Satan
Exactly- if Hamas did nothing about this group the zionists would go into a frenzy about how they are allowing al Qaida to operate on their soil. So as ever the Palestinians are damned if they do; damned if they dont
Shafa – you make some interesting points. I think many people would agree with your that most cultures, nations and societies do get more upset when “their” people are killed in attacks by an “other” or external enemy – as a opposed to when they are killed in internal politics disputes, domestic violence, traffic accidents etc. I do accept that this might in part explain why some Muslim or Palestinian groups have not drawn attention to this as much as they would if these Palestinians had been killed in an Israeli attack.
However, this does not explain why non-Muslim organisations such as The Stop The War Coalition or the Socialist Workers’ Party have not shown any interest in this issue. Surely if they are interested in drawing attention to human rights abuses against Palestinians, as they claim, then that should apply to all Palestinians – and not just the ones killed by Israel? Their failure to do inevitably appears inconsistent and partisan.
I don’t at all understand your remark – apparently direct towards Yossarian – that “you consider all Palestinian life cheap regardless”. How can you possibly make such an accusation in relation to an article that actually draws attention to the deaths of a large number of Palestinians and which simply raises the question of whether some people see some Palestinian deaths as more important than others?
Al Qanaas Al Misri
Youd have to ask them that. Its absurd to demand that organisations who support the Palestinians condemn such actions while at the same time not demanding partisan organistaions that support Israel not utter a word condemning its atrocities. For example why didnt the UK govt criticise Israels slaughetr in Gaza?
Great so where are his articles in the Israeli slaughter in Gaza and its continual starvation of the Palestinian people which is causing untold suffering and misery and have killed far far more ?
If Hamas hadnt done this Yossarian would have written an article about how Hamas are allowing al Qaida to freely operate in Gaza.
Shafa – please explain something to us. All of your comments about this story keep referring back to Israel, but I see you don’t condemn the events of the story being discussed. Surely this is an oversight? I’m sure you’re aware that selective outrage doesn’t give the impression of having a coherent world-view. Perhaps you could remedy this?
The root of the matter is that the tone of Yossarian’s article clearly condemns the “selective outrage” of Muslims. Shafa is simply making the point that such selective outrage is not the monopoly of Muslims. And I would agree.
I have, on a number of occasions, sent the editors of Spittoon news items about atrocities commited by the Israeli state on Palestinians and asked them if will write something about it, but nothing was done.
This is not to condemn the editors of Spitton. Everyone has their own set of filters, interests and limitations – perceived or otherwise – on what they can or cannot do with their time. Most arguments are disputes about these mental boundaries. This will not change any time soon. Boring but true.
Abu Yusuf
LOL. Rumbled.
Polaris
Actually what i dont understand is why you condemn the elected government in Gaza for doing this action while loudly supporting the US/UK etc doing the exact same with far more bloody results in places like Afghanistan or the Pakistan army in NWFP.
Abu Yusuf:
Which editors? I didn’t receive anything.
More fundamentally, this is a blog concerned with taking a principled approach towards critiquing Islamists. There are many other people out there in the world who deserve criticism and Spittoon does not mention them either – simply because Israel falls outside the remit of this blog should not be taken as tacit (or otherwise) support for Israeli policies.
It is not about condemning one side or the other, it is about condemning loss of life. For some reason when Palestinians are killed by other Palestinians or Iraqis this is deemed less horrific than when they are killed by Israelis. Any death is horrific and we must try to stop every single one.
Yossarian
Principled? Yeah we can see that from the “caption competition”
Great so why do you demand Muslims condemn wrongs done by other Muslims ?
That is not what I demand, what I want is that groups which claim to stand up for Palestinians give an explanation for why they fail to do so when Palestinians are being killed by other Palestinians or Iraqis.
Editors – Have you refused to publish articles critical of Israel?
Would be disappointed if you have.
Yossarian,
Fair point about the focus of this blog. However, Marshall’s article does not so much critique “Islamists”, or even Hamas, but rather the whole of the Muslim community for not instigating “the marches, the petitions, the calls for a boycott, the conspiracy theory of a war against Muslims, ad infinitum“, as they do when Israel or America does the killing.
Surely you can see that this critique of Muslims only carries weight when viewed through a mindset that holds that only Muslims are capable of such unbalanced outcry. But it is easy to demonstrate that such a mindset is based on false premises. In fact such bias and selectivism is an attribute shared by almost all human collectivities (as some of shafa’s examples point out).
If Marshall wanted to tell us something new about this univeral proclivity to hold a bias, it might have been interesting. But as it stands, the article tells us more about his own biases than anything else is and I don’t find it particularly valuable. Perhaps SKY News viewers can derive some entertainment from it.
I have written to Spittoon editors other than yourself
1) As stated above, Israel-Palestine is generally outside the remit of this blog.
2) As also stated above, I have no idea what Abu Yusuf is talking about when he says that he’s sent us articles. I have never received correspondence from him on any occasion.
3) If we are offered guest posts then we will consider them on their merits, there is no way that taking an anti-Israeli line will stop us from posting something if we think it is interesting. We have even offered a guest post to Abdurahman Jafar, hardly somebody Spittoon editors agree with, and I would agree with somebody taking a strongly anti line on many Israeli policies. Abu Yusuf, if you would like to write a guest post condeming events in Israel then you are welcome to email me and, if I think it is interesting, I will guest post it.
Abu Yusuf, your contributions are normally interesting and valued, but I am a little confused by what you are trying to imply here.
Yossarian,
Our last two posts seem to have come in at about the same time. Please read my 3:29 pm post to answer the questions in your 3:32 pm post. Thanks.
I should explain that I have never sent any “articles about Israel” to Spittoon editors, but merely sent in a link to a news article about events in Israel and asked an editor to mention in on the blog. It was not mentioned, but perhaps I misunderstood your editorial process. Sorry for the confusion.
Abu Yusuf, you seem to read too much into the Marshall article. I do not see it as a critique of Muslims but of the organisations that do so much to mobilise the British public (Muslim and non-Muslim) into protesting about abuses in Israel-Palestine. I do not doubt that the sentiment of people protesting against Israel is one of shared humanity and concern for fellow human beings – but I also think that we would not have seen protests on the scale we did about Gaza if it were not for the actions of a number of groups (Stop the War, MAB/MCB) which, for their own political reasons, are not concerned by the deaths of Palestinians at the hands of Iraqis and Palestinians. The suggestion of double standards is not an allegation made against all Muslims but against Islamists and their fellow travellers.
Yossarian,
I take your point, and it is a very beguiling one indeed, that Marshall’s article espouses the taking of a balanced stance with regard to atrocities commited by Israelis on Palestines and those commited by Palestinians on Palestinians.
This seems to appeal to one’s sense of fairness and justice. However, the truth of the matter is that the scale of the atrocities commited by Palestinians is nowhere near the magnitide of that commited by Israelis. To quote Shaykh Wikipedia, by way of a recent example:
There is also the undeniable support, or subservience, of America to Israeli injustice (viz, Sharon’s 2001 statement “don’t worry about American pressure, we the Jewish people control America”), the kind of support which, of course, Palestinians do not enjoy.
It is the outrage to all of this which brings people out into the street in protest due to sheer frustration and the feeling of a need to do something about it.
In other words, although it is true that one should protest against all cases of injustice and violence, surely the scale of the protest should be proportionate the the amount of violence being done.
If you cannot see this, then it should be an indicator to you – as an intelligent person – of your own biases. You may choose to change them or keep them as they are but you should be honest about them.
Also, in denying the need to report on Israeli attacks against Palestinians, I find your statement that “Israel-Palestine is generally outside the remit of this blog” a little strange, when one of the categories on the side of this page is “Israel/Palestine”.
And by the way, may I bring to the attention of Spittoon editors the recent abduction of the Muslim imam in Loughton which has been linked to the BNP and the BNP councillor of Loughton, Pat Richardson, about whom the Guardian writes, “She believes that the weekly Muslim prayer meeting is a prelude to an attempt to encourage more Muslims to move into the area, and thus to vote out the BNP”.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/26/muslim-attack-bnp-essex
Just to clarify, what you are saying is that it is a sign of my biases that I think every Palestinian death should be condemned (and mourned).
Also, do you truly believe that the scale of protests organised by Stop the War (and others) over Palestinian deaths at the hands of Iraqis or other Palestinians (or, indeed, their responses to deaths in Darfur, Sri Lanka when the fighting was at its peak, Congo, Somalia, Chad and other conflicts around the globe) is “proportionate to the amount of violence being done”?
Furthermore, you take a simple concern (every Palestinian death should matter, not just those at the hands of Israelis) and, for some reason, make of it something very different – that all of the deaths at the hands of Palestinians receive the same focus as all of the deaths at the hands of Israelis.
And before you leap to any more conclusions about my views on Israel-Palestine (which I simply have no interest in sharing on this blog, if you want to read about that topic there are plenty of other blogs dealing with it), none of what I have written attempts to diminish the horror of what Palestinians are suffering nor to detract from the sincerity of the vast majority of the people who protest about that suffering. I am merely commenting that some/many of the people who (rightly) whip up a storm when Palestinians are killed by Israelis wrongly do not do so when Palestinians (and others) are killed by anybody else.
Abu Yusef -the Gaza war started long before December 2008. It began 7 years previously when Hamas started firing rockets and mortars at Israeli towns well within the ‘green line’ and continued and escalated after the Israeli evacuation of Gaza in 2005.
No regrets I see for the Israeli children as young as 2 and 4 killed by Hamas rockets whilst playing outside their homes in Sderot.
No recognition of the fact that Hamas is bankrolled and supplied with missiles by Iran or that the vast majority of those killed in Gaza were Hamas operatives. No mention of the Fatah members killed by Hamas but conveniently included in the death toll reported by Hamas.
No interest either in what is currently happening in Yemen -over 200 killed and 1,500 made homeless within the last month alone.
I’m sorry, but if you really believe what you have written -”although it is true that one should protest against all cases of injustice and violence”, then a little less selective thinking would make you a darned sight more credible.
As it is, you seem to be proving Tim Marshall’s point quite well.