It’s that time of the week again folks!
This week we’re featuring “Dr Evil” from Hizb ut Tahrir. The picture below is of its media spokesman, Dr Imran Waheed, a man whose massive ego is eclipsed only by the expansiveness of his waistline. Pity him, its been a bad week for his jihad-loving outfit.
As ever, captions in the comments box below.
76 Comments
“And when the Caliphate comes, my sword for slaying the kaffirs will be this big”.
Sing with me kaafirs!
Were going to party
Khilafah, jihadis, forever
Come on and sing along!
Were going to party
Khilafah, hizbis, together
Come on and sing my song!
They’re jamming in the street
All night long! (all night)
[Sorry Lionel Richie]
I want my lunchtime baguette to be this long and wish something else was too but I haven’t seen it for a while.
Faisal – you have quite a knack with turning old classics into Jihadi anthems.
“Trust me. I’m a doctor”.
i will set up khilafa if you give me……
ONE BILLION DOLLARS!!!!
and then, my beard will be this wide!
MUWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!
b’shalom
bananabrain
There are two types of people I can’t stand, those who don’t tolerate other cultures and the Dutch.
“Inshallah, one day I will be this fat”
“and then i grabbed them, put my head between them and went ‘brmbmbmbmbmbmbmbmbrbm’”
b’shalom
bananabrain
“You do istanja like so…”
haha
HAHAHA
GLOBAL ISTANJA
The Need & the Method
For all your irritable bowel needs.
Give me high fives Taji and Abdul Waheed !
Waheed amazed the crowd by juggling invisible balls at the annual HuT circus.
This is roughly the size of my daily enema…it fits quite comfortably
y’know, I’ve thought long and hard about a caption to this picture and unfortunately all I can come up with is
FAT CUNT
My beard may be short, but my pubes are THIS long.
I have made a mistake posting comments on this site. I actually thought you guys were serious.
This is proposterous.
I know, this is just outrageous: people having fun and a bit of a laugh?!
Astagfirallah!
May Allah keep us eternally serious and guard against such frivolity.
Thanks to Abdul-Rehman for reviving this thread!
Waheed regaled the HT crowd with his rendition of ‘Baby got Back’ with full hand gestures to match:
“I like big butts and I can not lie
You other brothers can’t deny
That when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist
And a round thing in your face
You get sprung, wanna pull out your tough
‘Cause you notice that butt was stuffed
Deep in the jeans she’s wearing
I’m hooked and I can’t stop staring
Oh baby, I wanna get with you
And take your picture
My homeboys tried to warn me
But that butt you got makes me so horny”.
More here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v9at5RlFu4
Allah (SWT), Lord of the Alamin says,
“Those whose scales are light are the losers of their selves and will remain in Hell timelessly, forever. The Fire will sear their faces, making them grimace horribly, their lips drawn back from their teeth. “Were My signs not recited to you, and did you not deny them?” They will reply: “Our Lord, our miserable destiny overpowered us. We were a misguided people. Our Lord, remove us from it! Then if we revert again, we will definitely be wrongdoers.” He will say: “Slink away into it [the Fire] and do not speak to Me. A group of My servants said: ‘Our Lord, we believe, so forgive us and have mercy on us. You are the Best of the Merciful.’ But you mocked them so that they made you forget to remember Me while you were laughing at them. Today I have rewarded them for being steadfast. They are the ones who are victorious.” (Surat al-Mu’minun, 103-111)
“They will ask: “How is it that we do not see some people whom we used to count among the worst of people? Did we turn them into figures of fun? Did our eyes disdain to look at them?” All of this is certainly true – the bickering of the people of the Fire.” (Surah Sâd, 62-64)
“When he learns something of Our signs, he mocks them. Such people will have a humiliating punishment. Hell is right at their heels. Nothing they have earned will be of any use to them, and neither will those they took as protectors besides Allah. They will have a terrible punishment. ”
(Surat al-Jathiyya, 9-10)
“What confronts them will be the evil actions that they earned, and what they used to mock will engulf them.” (Surat az-Zumar, 48)
“Their evil actions assailed them. They were engulfed by what they mocked. “(Surat an-Nahl, 34)
“Their evil deeds will appear before them, and the things they mocked will engulf them. They will be told: “Today We have forgotten you, just as you forgot the meeting of this your Day. Your refuge is the Fire and you have no helpers, because you mocked Allah’s signs and the life of this world deluded you.” Therefore, today they will not get out of it and will be unable to appease Allah.” (Surat al-Jathiyya, 33-35)
“We established them far more firmly than We have established you, and gave them hearing, sight, and hearts. But their hearing, sight, and hearts were of no use to them at all when they renounced Allah’s signs, and what they mocked engulfed them.” (Surat al-Ahqaf, 26)
So carry on mocking. Will be too late when you are in regret. When the fire of Jahanam encircles you and those you mock take your good deeds, you will be full of regret, begging for forgiveness, retracting such comments – but it will be too late.
We are only mocking Imran Waheed here, and HT. Neither is a divine sign from Allah beyond ridicule. All those verses (which you quote out of context) refer to mocking Allah’s signs – are you saying that Imran Waheed is a sign to mankind from Allah? If that’s what you believe, you got issues dude.
“When he learns something of Our signs, he mocks them”.
What signs? That we should kill babies and women and the infirm at wartime (and regardless of where the war is occuring)? That we should commit suicide to achieve this? These are signs from the Qur’an and teachings of the Sunnah, right?
Please.
Your intentions may be well placed. Inshallah, actions are judged by intentions. But do yourself a favour and stop defending people who lie about Islam and bring it into calumny.
And while you’re at it, tell your glorious spokesman
to stop proclaiming that he is an “ambassador of
Islam”. He is an ambassador of nothing but his own
ego and the fitnah which is a portent of the Last
Days.
When the real Khalifah of this age comes, who is
none but Sayyidna ‘Isa ibn Maryam alayhi as-salam, will you
unite behind him with the rest of the ummah?
That is the question. Or will you reject even him
because he does not follow your self-formulated
theories of the khilafah, or because he is a jewish
rabbi?
Muhammad (SAW) was mocked for his message. As were the Prophets before him. The context of the verses refers to those people who mocked Muhammad (SAW)s message.
Imran Waheed is a member of HT and at that conference was reaffirming the message of Muhammad (SAW). Please read his speech and show me where that message was contradicted. Clearly, you will find that it does not.
The arrogant ones always resort to mocking when they lose intellectual argument.
Please read his speech and show me where that message was contradicted. Clearly, you will find that it does not.
Waheed is a politician not a prophet or a religious representative. To that end, like any other politician, he is putting his political ideas forward in the public domain. He should expect that people can and will criticise any aspect of his ideology just as they will of any politician. And no amount of scriptural references which he and his supporters insist elevates his message to that of the Prophet’s entitles him protection from any criticism he receives.
‘Abd Al-Rahman,
Rather, it is the arrogant who cannot handle a little bit of mocking.
Imran Waheed is not only a member, but the UK spokesman of HT. Have you seen the HT leaflets describing suicide bombing as “legitimate acts of martyrdom”. This, then, is HT’s method for attaining Khilafah.
Imran Wadud said in a recent interview, “The legitimate force is the Islamic army of the Islamic Khilafat. Muslims have the right to resist occupation and if that means that they have to undertake such actions (suicide attacks) then we will never condemn that”.
Now please give me an example from the sunnah or the writings of the scholars which proves that killing oneself and children and women is a legitimate path to become a shahid.
You might want to refer to the following in formulating your answer:
It is related that ‘Abdullah reported that a woman was found slain in one of the expeditions of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, forbade of killing women and children. (Muwatta, Book 21, 9)
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Hell Fire (forever) and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself shall keep on stabbing himself in the Hell-Fire.” (Bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 446:)
The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, “Whoever intentionally swears falsely by a religion other than Islam, then he is what he has said, (e.g. if he says, ‘If such thing is not true then I am a Jew,’ he is really a Jew). And whoever commits suicide with piece of iron will be punished with the same piece of iron in the Hell Fire.” Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, “A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him.” .” (Volume 2, Book 23, Number 445)
And also:
http://mac.abc.se/home/onesr/ez/isl/0-sbm/The.Hijacked.Caravan.html
http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=1&id=1427
http://mac.abc.se/~onesr/ez/isl/0-sbm/Condemnations%20of%20Suicide%20Bombing%20by%20Muslims.pdf
http://www.theislamblog.com/archive/shaykh-ibn-uthaymin-on-suicide-bombings/
Suicide bombings are just one aspect of the fitnah which HT is busy sowing. The issue of takfir is being dealt with elsewhere on this site, where you are fighting a losing battle.
Please provide an answer to the question above in italics, or just give up. Do yourself and the ummah a favour. There is no harm in following the Truth.
Well said Dawood!!
That is a classic HT tactic. They are so full of their own self-righteousness that they think attacking them is the same as attacking Islam. If the Prophet was alive today he would declare war on HT and AQ types and have they locked up with the key thrown away.
Abu Wanabe,
Your hypothetical statements are just that. Hypothetical.
Muhammad (SAW) is not here in this world today. But the Quran and Sunnah are here in this world. They are readily available to use as sources for guidance.
HT, like other Islamic groups refer to these sources for guidance.
Dawood,
I agree that Imran Waheed is not above citicism. But all Muslims and Non Muslism do not deserved to be publically mocked about appearence or any other personal matter. The posts above are not about what he has said. Rather they are clearly mocking his personal characteristics. This is clearly unislamic. The punishment for those who mock sincere Muslims is clear.
Abu Yusuf,
Like many others on this site, you answer your own question without realising it. You quote Imran but put emphasis on the wrong area, taking the quote completely out of context. The emphasis needs to be on the point:
“..have the right to resist occupation..”
Clearly, the context he is referring to is using any means to defend against an occupier. An occupier is not women and children. An occupier is an army. There are many examples in the world today where such occupation exists. Please don’t bury your head in the sand.
There are countless ahadith which glorify companions who gave their lives defending their deen and people from occupation.
One simple example is the statement of Allah (SWT) in surah 22 verses 39 and 40:
“Permission to fight is given to the mumineen against those who are fighting them, because the mumineen have been wronged, and surely, Allâh is Able to give them victory ”
“Those who have been expelled from their homes unjustly only because they said: “Our Lord is Allâh.” – For had it not been that Allâh checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, wherein the Name of Allâh is mentioned much would surely have been pulled down..”
Ibn Kathir tafsir of this verse goes further to clarify its meaning. Please feel free to check it.
Stop quoting people out of context and stop mocking like immature kids.
‘Abd al-Rahman,
The context is this: The HT leaflet which says suicide bombing is “a legitimate acts of martyrdom”, in complete contradiction to the vast majority of ‘ulema’s opinion.
In this context, Imran Waheed’s comments condone this kind of suicide bombing.
This is not MY emphasis, but HT’s emphasis in making a stand about it.
1. Give me one example of a suicide bombing where only the “occupiers” and not civilians were killed. You know as well as I do that this is not he aim of suicide bombers.
2. Show me how suicide, of any kind, is permitted in Islam. (You have not answered this, and none of the ayats or ahadith you quoted mention suicide and so are completely irrelevant).
3. Mention one sahaba who died as shahid by killing himself with his own hand.
So don’t talk about contexts and “..have the right to resist occupation..”.
Don’t twist the Qur’an the Prophet’s words just to align with your organisation’s perverted manifestos.
Just use your mind for a little bit. What possible benefit could a few suicide bombings have on 1.2 billion muslim ummah? How is it defensible as a military tactic, let alone as a means of attaining martyrdom in the face of so many quranic and prophetic injuctions forbiding suicide?
The only effect it has is to push people away from Islam. Wake up and admit that this way of thinking is just wrong, diabolic, satanic.
And then go and tell your friends.
Abu Yusuf,
I am not sure if you are talking from a humanitarian point of view or religious?
But you are contradicting both. Liberalists and the religous clearly agree that a person has the right to defend themselves. For sure some relgions state that the ultimate higher goal is to turn the other cheek. That is a respectable position. But regardless of agreement, secular democracies which exist to protect freedom and liberty, not only have armies, but intercontinental ballistic missiles armed with Nuclear warheads.
In the media, they glorify a person who “puts their life on the line” to protect fellow citizens. Becuase from even a purely humanitarian perspective a person can use any means to defend him and his family from someone trying to kill him or his family which he loves dear.
For example, if someone came out side your home and said they want to kill your mother and all you had was a stone to protect her, I can garauntee, you will do everything in your power and even put your life on the line in a scenario where your death seems certain, to protect her. Humanity gives you that right as does Islam.
Lets not superimpose our own lens on something which has simple and clear meaning.
‘Abd al-Rahman,
I am talking from an Islamic perspective.
I will put the questions to you again:
1. Give me one example of a suicide bombing where only the “occupiers” and not civilians were killed. You know as well as I do that this is not he aim of suicide bombers.
2. Show me how suicide, of any kind, is permitted in Islam. (You have not answered this, and none of the ayats or ahadith you quoted mention suicide and so are completely irrelevant).
3. Mention one sahaba who died as shahid by killing himself with his own hand.
And here are my responses to your points:
Yes, of course a person has the right to defend themselves. I am not disputing that. But not by suicide bombing. I will not defind myself by blowing myself up and killing someone’s children and wife and mother in the process. Would you? (You certainly sound like you are condoning suicide bombings).
Just because secular decomocracies have nuclear warheads, this makes suicide bombing permissable in Islam? I don’t follow your logic.
And finally, I will indulge your little hypothetical melodrama: if someone comes to my house and threatens to kill my mother, yes I would put my life on the line to protect her. But I would not strap a bomb to my back and blow up my house and the neighbour’s innocent children in doing so. Firsly because suicide is prohibited in Islam, secondly because it would be murdering the neighhbour’s innocent children, and thirdly because it would just be stupid.
Now, I have answered your questions. Please answer mine.
Abu Yusuf,
Again, you are clearly confusing yourself, by having answered your own questions twice in a row.
You agree that a person or a society is allowed to defend itself.
When defending your mother from attack, you will use any means to defend her.
When defending your society from attack from an incoming army with tanks, planes etc, you are entitled to use any means for defence.
Please stop taking things out of context. Clearly, the context here is a group of people with very little armament fighting an army on a front line with vastly superior armament, which comes to occupy and kill their families and people. This has nothing to do with using any means necessary against innocent people.
But it has everything to do with using any means necessary against an occupying military force.
To be clear, killing innocent people (Muslim or none Muslim) is Clearly forbidden and Haraam. There is no evidence whatsoever that points to Imran Waheed or HT saying that.
You are misquoting, taking things completely out of context, hence asking the wrong questions and falling into the age old trap of blind political correctness, conforming to a hypocritical doctrine which praises its own people when they give their lives in defence of fellow citizens using any means necessary and villifies others who do the same thing, but against the other sides interests.
Like I said before, please stop burying your head in the sand.
By the way, Abdul Rehman, please email me your picture for this week’s caption competition
‘Abd Al-Rahman,
“To be clear, killing innocent people (Muslim or none Muslim) is Clearly forbidden and Haraam. There is no evidence whatsoever that points to Imran Waheed or HT saying that.”
I’m glad you understand that.
Now, do you accept that suicide is also Clearly forbidden and Haraam?
Then your “any means necessary” includes committing suicide, ie., doing what is haraam.
I understand your postition.
And almost all the ‘Ulema say that your position is wrong.
I put the questions (which you have not answered) to you again:
1. Give me one example of a suicide bombing where only the “occupiers” and not civilians were killed. You know as well as I do that this is not he aim of suicide bombers.
2. Show me how suicide, of any kind, is permitted in Islam. (You have not answered this, and none of the ayats or ahadith you quoted mention suicide and so are completely irrelevant).
3. Mention one sahaba who died as shahid by killing himself with his own hand.
By all means, use google to find answers to these questions. You might learn something.
Abu Yusuf,
Again, stop confusing yourself by misreading what has been written and asking irrelevant questions.
You will find it enlightening, I am sure, if you take a deep breath and slowly read what has already been stated.
Maybe then it will make sense?
Shikwa,
I would do, but i dont want to be cause of mockery.
Although Thank you for your kind gesture.
‘Abd Al-Rahman,
Here’s a hint: my questions are for your benefit, not not for mine.
If you wish to take a position which is contrary to almost every ‘Alim past and present, that is up to you. May Allah have mercy on your soul.
But for God’s sake, don’t go around saying you are “ambassadors of Islam”.
Abu Yusuf,
All Muslims who do Islamic Dawah at an individual, societal or political level are ambassadors of Islam. Members of HT, like many other Islamic Groups do Dawah at all levels, so their members are also ambassadors of Islam. Imran Waheed is a member of HT, so he is, clearly an ambassador for Islam.
Like it or hate it, that is the reality, clear and concise Alhamdolillah Karim.
‘Abd Al-Rahman,
Dawah means “to invite”. Do you invite non-muslims to Islam by telling them that it’s okay to blow yourself up in order to defend yourself?
It’s interesting that you made a distinction earlier between “religious” and “humanitarian”. My religion, Islam, IS humanitarian. Clearly, your religion isn’t otherwise you would not have to make the distinction.
On reflection, I’m beginning to see the purpose of HT. ‘Ulama of every pursuasion: Salafi, Sufi, Shia, Sunni, all the madhaib and all the nationalities are united in condemnation of the idea of suicide bombing being permsisable in Islam. This unity is valuable.
Abdul Rahman, your response sums up precisely why you’ve been so resolutely refuted by the brothers like Abu Yusuf and Dawood here.
You see, by submitting your picture to me, you would not be the cause of the ‘mockery’. I cause it by running the competition and inviting comments. You would merely be the recipient. Either way, you are irrelevant to the running of the competition as it would go ahead with or without you. Therefore, how could you consider yourself to be the cause – particularly when it has been running long before you come to this website?
I suppose these little points of nuance are easily lost on you, explaining why you have been seduced into defending HT and Islamist positions such as suicide murders.
Abu Yusuf,
Alhamdolillah, I have had the opportunity to invite many none Muslims to Islam. Furthermore, HT has also invited many none-Muslims to Islam. Their memberbase, like many other Islamic groups, consists of reverts.
Allah (SWT) understands the human condition better than any creation. Therefore we read the Quran, Sunnah and various other Islamic Sources for guidance on how to live in this life and prepare for the next.
Allah (SWT) through the Quran and Sunnah has clearly defined how humanity is viewed from the perspective of a judicial moral purpose.
The notion of “Humanitarianism” is subjective. I know how you are refering to it and your reference is indeed correct.
But my comparison was against the secular definition of Humanitarianism which is resolutely devoid of religion.
Shikwa,
You miss the forest for the trees. If the picture is not posted, there is no picture to mock. Since this competition has shown its shallow nature, by deluding itself into thinking that mocking a Muslim is acceptable based on the premise of “free speech” , posting another picture will invite more shallow mockery.
Like I said before, I do not want to be the cause of mockery. You might, but then you’re going to have a hard time in Jahanam when you are encircled by that which you mock.
‘Abd Al-Rahman,
It has been interesting debating with you. I have learnt much. Thanks for your time.
P.S., I hope you weren’t mocking me when you said my head is in the sand.
Abu Yusuf,
I have also enjoyed the debate. Jazak Allah Khere.
No that was not mocking, but a well known figure of speech which resulted from my interpretation of what you were writing.
Abdul Rehman, I won’t bother trying to explain it to you again. Suffice to say, the correct saying is that someone cannot see the wood for the trees not “forest from the trees”. Hahaha, what the hell does that even mean? Didn’t Imran Waheed teach you English in your Halakah?
Which brings me to my next point – are you a member (or a student) of Hizb ut Tahrir? Please do tell us.
Finally, I see that you’ve been crying about this site over at Traditional Islamism saying:
I have been rebutting the guys at spitoon. While doing so i came across some very childish articles with some very immature comments e.g. the one about Imran Waheed. I made a mistake thinking they are serious, so no more posting on their site.
That comment was made at 13.25 on July 14 – and yet here you are more than 24 hours later still posting. Hahaha, you Islamists can’t keep away can you? (By the way, I don’t know who you think you’ve been rebutting, but its certainly not anyone on this site).
Finally, Mr Traditional Islamism, Ahlan Wa Sahlan. Good to know you’re reading our site too. Oh, and it seems your cronies are too busy coming over here and posting so no need for us to come over to yours. Anyway, I thought your Hizb gave you orders not to debate with people like us – you naughty, naughty Tahriri, you. Don’t you know its fard to obey the Amir?
Now go on, stop reading this site – it’s making you late for halaka.
Oh, and remember that, at all costs, once you’ve lost the debate here to go back to your crowd with the usual “they’re just not sincere” crap. Got it? Ok then, toodeloo!
“Traditional Islamism”?!?
Yukk. I find that name so jarring. It’s like “Sacred Macdonaldsism” or “Divine Consumerism”.
It’s just a complete oxymoron – like someone saying they have a halal pig!
Shikwa,
Your grasp of English is definitely questionable. Missing the forest for the trees is a well known metaphore for being overly concerned with detail; not understanding the whole situation and thus missing the point being made. Clearly, you suffer from that.
Yes I did post that on TI. It was as a result of the immature and childish nature of the comments on this site, which I thought should be exposed.
I did say that I will no longer post here since this is not a serious site. But I felt it necessary to correct the clear idiosyncracies on display.
Individual Membership of any group is not of concern. On the contrary, of concern are those who use loaded terms like “Islamist” without understanding its nuances and impact, fast becoming a faternity of intellectually bereft, politically correct hypocrites, bending over backwards to please their masters, for financial gain, career enhancement or a desire to rub shoulders with the establishment.
They are in the business of selling out peace loving Muslims who have worked in Britain with and without Islamic groups for years, to build peace and tranquility in society.
“those who use loaded terms like “Islamist” without understanding its nuances”
‘Abd Al-Rahman,
The word “Islamist” was coined by non-muslims to describe a thoroughly modern movement within Islam which is devoid of many traditional elements and which often uses over-literal readings of scriptures, with an emphasis on political upheaval. It is used specifically to differentiate a sub-group of Muslims from the vast majority of mainstream peace-loving Muslims.
Very surprising, and a little depressing, then, to see a website called “Traditional Islamism” run by muslims. This name is undeniably an oxymoron, whether you say so or not.
Never mind. You’ve paid for the domain name now so stick to it. Have a nice day.
Aaah, ok, so we can safely assume that you are a member of Hizb ut Tahrir then. We all know your oath forbids you from denying it. But, the real question remains, why are you posting here when the Amir al-Mu’mineen that great Shiekh (who, er, is actually just an engineer) Ata abu Rishta has banned his little band of followers from engaging with us? We should report you to Taji Mustafa or Imran Waheed so they can discipline you immediately.
Also, save us your pompous shit. Every week we get a new Islamist here railing about hypocrisy, insincerity, selling out etc etc. You’re no different. Next week you’ll be gone and someone else will rise in your place. It’s amazing you consider that people here are writing the website for personal gain when many of us write under a pseudonym, isn’t it? Ever think about that?
Of course, the real opportunists are people like you, abusing Islam to give yourself self-important and self-appointed titles in your pathetic little groups with a desperate quest for power. So don’t try to deflect attention off the fact that you are an Islamist, a member of a theocratic, racist, fascist organisation that has no place in a liberal society.
Abu Yusuf,
I agree that your definition is indeed a definition of “Islamism”. But it is a subjective term, which can have different meanings if contextualised.
i.e. “ism” is actually just a suffix when appended, mean addherence to or following an ideology or religion.
E.g. Hundu”ism”, Budh”ism”, Commun”ism”, Christian”ism” etc and in singular form we have “hinduist” “Budhist” “Commuinst” “Christianist”
If understood in that context “Islamism” simply means to adhere to the ideas of Islam. Thus an Islamist is just a person who adheres to the tennants of Islam. In this context all Muslims are Islamists. Some are modern Islamists who have invented matters which are alien to the deen and others are traditional Islamists who follow the classical scholar interpretation of the Islamic sources. In this context, Traditional Islamism or Traditional Islamist is not an oxymoron but clearly understandable.
Western media is good at pigeon holing communities, groups and anyone with contrarion views. Thus when Muslims started calling for political unity on the basis of Islam, which goes against the interest of western ideology, a term had to be invented with negative connotations. Thus they coined the phrases “Islamism” and “Islamist” in a negative context at birth, yet from a literary perspective they actually have neutral meaning.
‘Abd Al-Rahman,
All muslims are Islamists? Then why call yourself Islamists and not muslims?
(I would place a bet that you won’t answer that question directly, but gambling is prohibited).
All muslims are Islamists. How’s the sand looking?
Thanks again for your time.
Shikwa,
You have fallen into the trap of using terms which you do not understand, but have only understood through the lens of tabloid papers like the Sun or Intellectually bereft articles written by members of the Quilliam Foundation.
I am a member of the Muslim Ummah, which Allah (SWT) described as the best Ummah every Raised up from amongst mankind.
HT is from this great Ummah, works amongst this Ummah, for this Ummah and will continue to strive on the truth, to bring an end to torture, injustice and corruption which has prevailed for so long.
Abu Yusuf,
Like i said, in different contexts it can have different meanings and at the moment the western media outlets are having the most influence on defining its meaning. But in truth it is a very subjective term.
Therefore in the neutral context a Muslim is an Islamist as an Islamist follows Islam. The very title “traditionalIslamist” exists to make this point.
This is my interpretation of TI. Am sure TI have theirs.
JZK for your thoughts dear brother.
No answer to my question. I would have won that bet.
I’m a Muslim, get me out of here.
I have work to do with my hinduist and christianist colleagues.
Its this sanctimonious crap from you Islamists that really stumps me. Aren’t you supposed to be humble? Yet you think you’re so enlightened because of what? Because you take your deen from an engineer? Because you sit around for 2 hours a week discussing a book written by Nabhani? Oh yes, very good. Mashallah.
Let’s not forget, the Ummah which you speak of so frequently is precisely the Ummah which has refused to vote for Islamist groups and parties in Iraq, Pakistan and Bangladesh. The Ummah hates and loathes you and sees you for the opportunistic creatures you really are. They have utterly rejected you at every turn.
Oh, and why are you so ashmed to admit your membership of HT? The members I used to know many years ago never hid it. And now you’ll do anything you can not to admit it. I know your group has taken a major beating these last few years, but I had no idea things were so bad that the shabab were now hiding their affiliation. Terrible. Still, I suppose you’ll have to resort to that while you lack the moral courage to leave like those before you.
Alhamdolilah, I have succeeded in one of my simple aims.
To push the mokery comments on to the previous page, so those are no longer shown by default
‘Abd Al-Rahman
Your own comments are more of a mockery of your group than anything we could come up with. Would that you could see it.
Hahaha, good point Abu Yusuf. Also, the number of comments here means that this is now one of the most popular posts which ensures it will continue to be listed on our homepage for sometime, ensuring even more people will see it in the long run.
Jazak Allah Khair for that Abdul-Rehman.
Shikwa,
You say:
“the Ummah which you speak of so frequently is precisely the Ummah which has refused to vote for Islamist groups and parties in Iraq, Pakistan and Bangladesh”
With all respect, you definitely have a naive view of the political realities in each of those countries. Lets summarise one by one:
Iraq: The Iraqi regime and structure was put in place by the Occupying foreign force. The elections were clearly false where less than 5% of the total population voted. Poltically it is impossible to have fair elections when you have the presence of an occupying force which installed a defacto government.
Pakistan: Zardari is the current president of Pakistan. This man is a gangster. he did not recieve any votes yet on the back of his wifes murder, got into power through the assembly. This in itself shows clearly the weakness of the pakistani political system which has been manipulated from Pakistans inception. There is clear evidence that the poor are bribed by the rich to vote for secular parties.
Bangladesh: Sheikh Hasina, PM of Bangladesh. During the last year of her rule, Trnsparency international declared Bangladesh to be the most corrupt country in the world. She has squandered the wealth of Bangladesh and as a result of similar vote rigging, retained power.
Elections in developing countries are definitely not a viable measure for determining any conclusions.
My pleasure Shikwa.
Maybe Imran will reward you with something for getting the comments thread onto two pages? Amazing how you felt the need to defend him so closely, HuT really has descended into the cult of personality, eh?
Regarding elections, nothing will ever convince you that the Ummah loathes you. When you lose, they are rigged. When Islamist parties do well (as they have done in the past), this is a sign of ‘revival’ and the Ummah’s ‘yearning for Islam’. Which one is it?
When we point that out, we’re the naive ones. We’re the idiots. Like I’ve said, only you are enlightened because you take your deen from the engineer.
It’s now 29 hours since you swore never to post here again! What would your mushrif say?
Alhamdolilah, I have succeeded in one of my simple aims. To push the mokery comments on to the previous page, so those are no longer shown by default
I am still amazed at how much interest a picture of a McIslamist generates.
Abu Yusuf, Shikwa,
Clearly your intellectual reasoning is influenced by tabloids like the Sun. Proof of this is contained within your own statements about subjective terms and naive political conclusions.
My recommendation to you guys, is to travel the Muslim world and spend time in various countries. Not weeks but years. Alhamdolillah, you will see the political unity which exists amongst Muslims at the individual level and a hunger for such unity at a societal level.
You will also see the problems in our society. Corruption, injustice and tyrranical rule will be on clear display. Once you experience this yourself, you will conclude that a radical change is definitely required.
As Muslims, you will seek guidance from the Quran and Sunnah as to what this radical change manifests as.
After spending 30 years, in the middle east and south Asia I can definitely conclude that Islam as a just political system is far better an option than continuing the legacy of colonialism manifested as a cocktail of secularism, capitalism and communism, which leads to appointing the same spent leadership generation after generation.
My recommendation to you is go and spend another 30 years in the Middle East. Somewhere like Medina or Hadramawt.
Then you might get over your post-colonial hangups and realise the difference between Islam and Islamism.
Seriously.
Yes, we are naïve and stupid. But you are entirely rational because you believe that the entire Muslim world will one day live together in a borderless, unified block.
I’m afraid you’re one who’s political opinions are derived from the fantasy of Peter Pan rather than reality. That’s what happens when you take an engineer as your Amir!
Two more things:
I have spent the majority of my life living in the Muslim world, so whatcha gonna say now, punk?
And, what’s you obsession with the Sun? You keep referring to it. What the matter, you been looking at those naughty pictures again?
Shikwa,
Good to see you have finally admitted your naive intellect and clear stupidity. When you say “we” I assume you are speaking for Abu Yusuf. Am sure Abu will not be pleased at such a concession.
Oh please let me join Pizza-HuT so I can be saved by working for a Caliphate that will unite everyone, even though Pizza-HuT cannot itself remain united. What happened to all your former leading lights: Farid Kassim, Omar Bakri, Maajid Nawaz? None is with HuT today.
Its not just you members that abandon you, even your own children have abandoned you. Bakri’s youngest daughter doesn’t wear the hijab, and the older one is a stripper! I wonder what fate awaits your own progeny, especially as you are so clever, humble and sincere.
But I should admit to getting one thing wrong earlier. Its not just the Ummah that hates you – so do your own children. Such is the humiliation for those who twist Islam for their own desires!
Just looking at Dr Evil’s podium there, makes me think HT’s been nicking its pyramid imagery from somewhere. Think this might be a clue as to what HT’s leadership are really in it for? I mean, 10% of members’ earnings certainly seems to have kept old Imran in lamb doners.
Shikwa,
To quote you:
“Shikwa
Posted July 15, 2009 at 5:50 pm | Permalink
Yes, we are naïve and stupid..”
On that basis, everything you say must be taken with pinch of salt by your own admission.
I am rather disappointed by the arguments posed by posts on this site. They really do lack intellectual rigour.
I honestly thought you guys will actually have evidences that match up to references, which back up your points of view. But none of you have shown any of that. Even junior pupils studying G.C.S.E history at minimum quote relevant and correct references to back up their arguments.
What that shows, clearly, is that you are happy to believe in your own thinking, resorting to abuse, as per above and other posts when even the slightest intellectual challenge is put forth.
No one is stopping you from deluding yourselves, so feel free to carry on.
I thought it would be a good idea to put references to back up shikwa’s point about his self confessed stupidity and mockery.
Although I wanted this to remain on the other page, I feel it is important to show as proof of Shikwa’s self confessed stupidity.
Therefore here they are:
Shikwa
Posted July 10, 2009 at 10:25 am | Permalink
“And when the Caliphate comes, my sword for slaying the kaffirs will be this big”.
Shikwa
Posted July 10, 2009 at 12:00 pm | Permalink
“Inshallah, one day I will be this fat”
Shikwa
Posted July 10, 2009 at 5:02 pm | Permalink
Waheed amazed the crowd by juggling invisible balls at the annual HuT circus.
Shikwa
Posted July 15, 2009 at 12:46 am | Permalink
Thanks to Abdul-Rehman for reviving this thread!
Waheed regaled the HT crowd with his rendition of ‘Baby got Back’ with full hand gestures to match:
“I like big butts and I can not lie
You other brothers can’t deny
That when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist
And a round thing in your face
You get sprung, wanna pull out your tough
‘Cause you notice that butt was stuffed
Deep in the jeans she’s wearing
I’m hooked and I can’t stop staring
Oh baby, I wanna get with you
And take your picture
My homeboys tried to warn me
But that butt you got makes me so horny”.
Obviously you are so clever that HuT never taught you about sarcasm or humour. What kind of po-faced Islamist are you? I’m actually very disappointed with you, I thought you might have had some intellectual arguments to come and post here. Instead, like all the other Islamists, you resort to name calling, making wild accusations, and falsely (and arrogantly) thinking you are some kind of intellectual Adonis. At least this site reveals what is in your hearts and shows you guys for what you are, so our work is done.
By the way, what are you STILL doing here after vowing over 32 hours ago on the TI site that you would no longer be posting on Spittoon because you are so clearly too good for us?
Finally, I’ve been thinking, maybe we’ll run another picture of Imran Waheed for this week’s caption competition. After all, this has been our most successful one yet!
Shikwa,
As per above via your own posts you have lost all credibility of being taken seriously.
Carry on deluding yourself and patting yourself on the back. Rest assured, you won’t get very far with that attitude.
Are you still here? Hahahahaha.