Information about the high levels of interwoven activity between Labour Party councillors working for Tower Hamlets council and Islamist activists in East London Mosque (London Muslim Centre) appears to be reaching the public domain.
An article in the Sunday Express yesterday, by Ted Jeory, details the extent to which the Labour party in Tower Hamlets is infiltrated by members of the Saudi-backed hardline Islamist group, the Islamic Forum Europe (IFE):
The growing influence of the East London Mosque, whose education wing was built with Saudi money, on the Labour party is causing concern in Downing Street.
Gordon Brown, Justice Secretary Jack Straw and new Communities Secretary John Denham have been briefed on Islamic groups based there.
Party officials have held crisis talks about one group in particular, the Islamic Forum of Europe.
Senior party members fear it has infiltrated Labour and exerts too much power over MPs and councillors in areas with large Muslim populations.
Politicians fear that IFE can persuade imams to direct bloc votes at elections.
Labour insiders are particularly concerned about events in Tower Hamlets in east London, a £1billion authority that is home to parts of the City, Canary Wharf and the Olympics.
Ten days ago, Labour council leader Lutfur Rahman sparked outrage after asking the authority’s highly respected chief executive, Martin Smith, to go on leave because he had lost confidence in him.
His move came just days after he, three other councillors and an IFE official returned from a privately funded delegation to Saudi Arabia.
It is understood that they went to be blessed by Sheikh Adil al-Kalbani, a controversial and high-ranking imam in Mecca who said recently that Jews and Christians should only be allowed to live in the Arabian Peninsular “if their presence is essential”.
Cllr Rahman also held talks with Sheikh al-Kalbani in Tower Hamlets last October.
The East London Mosque is currently on an international fundraising drive to finance a large extension that would house new teaching facilities.
Mr Smith is understood to have had concerns about a request by the mosque to buy the council’s share in its freehold.
A spokesman for the IFE denied deliberate “infiltration” of political parties saying its supporters were free to follow any party they liked.
“We support the work of anyone who progresses the work of Islam,” he added.
A spokesman for the London Labour party conceded there were concerns about latest developments.
He said: “We’re keeping a close eye on things. The local party is in special measures because of concerns with membership. It means the regional director of the party will be managing the selection process for candidates for next year’s elections. We want to ensure candidates have the best intentions for the party.”
The Express report raises some questions that need to be urgently addressed by the London Labour party:
1) Why was Martin Smith suspended by Cllr Lutfor Rahman?
2) What was discussed by Cllr Lutfor Rahman and Sheikh Adil al-Kalbani when the latter visited Tower Hamlets in October?
3) Who are the three other councillors and the “IFE official” who travelled to Saudi Arabia to meet Sheikh Adil al-Kalbani?
4) In what official capacity did they travel to Saudi Arabia?
A clue towards an answer to the first question about the suspension of chief executive Martin Smith is found in an article from last year, also by Ted Jeory, in the East London Advertiser. It shows how Lutfor Rahman has been trying to oust Martin Smith and replace him with his crony Lutfor Rahman Ali since at least last year, despite doubts about Ali’s qualifications and credibility.
Opposition politicians on the council believe Lutfur Rahman is trying to oust Martin Smith to make way for assistant chief executive Lutfur Rahman Ali (aka Lutfur Ali, and no relation to the above).
Ali was controversially appointed to the £125,000 a year post last year. Headhunters apparently thought him a marginal candidate at best, but Lutfur Rahman backed him and his name was added to the shortlist.
Despite doubts over his suitability and questions over his CV, the seven-strong appointments sub-committee chose him for the job, in a narrow 4-3 decision. The four councillors who voted for him were fellow Bengalis and East London Mosque bigwigs Lutfur Rahman, his deputy Siraj Islam, Ohid Ahmed and local Respect leader Abjol Miah.
Imam al-Kalbani is the first black imam of the Grand Mosque in Mecca and also happens to be a sectarian hate-preacher and a racist. He spoke at the Global Peace and Unity event last year. As far as his “peace and unity” credentials are concerned, al-Kalbani regards the Shi’ite sect as heretical and Shi’a imams as apostates. Last month, 600 Saudi clerics called for Imam al-Kalbani to be prosecuted for inciting hatred against the Shi’a. His racist statements concerning Jewish inhabitants of Saudi Arabia are captured here.
The Prophet’s guidance, by which we act, dictates: “Drive the Jews and the Christians out of the Arabian Peninsula.” Driving them out is undoubtedly the prerogative of the ruler, but they should be allowed to live here only if their presence is essential.
Cllr Abjol Miah is the George Galloway understudy for the disgraced Respect Party in Tower Hamlets.
Cllr Lutfor Rahman is backed by Islamic Forum Europe (IFE), an Islamist group run out of the London Muslim Centre/East London Mosque. The IFE has strong links to Jamaat-e-Islami – a clerical-fascist party which operates with only marginal support in Bangladesh but which is disproportionately over-represented in Tower Hamlets Council.
74 Comments
I wonder how this would sound to people?
“Information about the high levels of interwoven activity between Labour Party councillors working for Tower Hamlets council and Jewish activists in East London Synagogue appears to be reaching the public domain.
An article in the Sunday Express yesterday, by Ted Jeory, details the extent to which the Labour party in Tower Hamlets is infiltrated by members of the Israeli-backed hardline Jewish group, the Jewish Forum Europe (IFE).”
Let’s call for pogrom on all Muslims!
The IFE and a small collection of Jamaati fanatics operating from an office in East London Mosque are “all Muslims”?
How would *that* sound to people, “Mark”?
Mark is a homosexual and that’s why he hates Muslims.
how disgraceful you call it one tower hamlets and yet at the top of tower hamlets governence it could not be more divided sort it out move on
and let the real leader lead think of what you are doing to the party and next election 2010 tower hamlets needs restructuring and re elected officers it is time for change then you will see the …hit the fan do it now dont leave it to late no seat is safe at this point
Mark – it was be just as crazy if any hardline nutcase religious group hijacked a council. I suppose you are now going to give us some lines from ‘The protocols of the elders of Babylon’ how Jews control the world and are immune from criticism.
Deflecting criticism is an old and tired tactic.
The new interim chief exec is a gay man.
Very likely to be appointed permanent chief exec also.
Is this the work of islamists? Hmmmm.
All of the individuals posting here are so illiterate as to make it difficult to distinguish their positions. I am glad that you imbeciles seem to be able to understand each other well enough to be hostile to one another. To an outsider it is an incomprehensible mess of ignorance and stupidity.
Greetings from the USA!
Thanks Adel – I take it we won’t be hearing from you again then?
“Mark is a homosexual and that’s why he hates Muslims”
To Bilal…….
Well, my muslim friend…. I too am a homosexual .
I also hate Islam (and biggotted muslims like you) because I am a human being, and hate biggotry, and repressive dangerous cults like Islam that is trying to take my country.
Oh yes..and I also hate Islam because I am Homosexual and choose to live.
This whole saga is nothing but a dirty political agenda. How wrong Andrew Gilligan is! He has reported in his documentry some of the quotes from various speech that doesn’t mean much.
I have tremendous respect for any non muslim and I beleive any normal public will feel the same about a muslim. Enough is enough..stop this nonsense and move on with our life…………surely I am a muslim, surely I am a british…
It wouldn’t be any different if a Jewish group who wanted to take over the world through war infiltrated a council. Do you know of any such arrangements my dear IFE scrotum lickers, do share.
Concerned !
I am British and my family has been for many hundreds of years. I am not outspoken, however I watched a Dispatches program last night and I have a feeling I’m going to be more so in coming years.
Britian is a great country and a fantastic place to exist, why are people being allowed to make such changes.
With my last breath I will defend my right to be British and live in a British culture. If people have strong views about how they wish to live their lives then why not exist in a land where there beliefs are held by the majority rather than trying to change things that have worked so well for so long!
I have only just started investigating this subject, but when I have a better understanding, you will here from me again.
No I am not a BNP member, conservative actually, bring back Margaret, that’s what say!
I am working under the assumption that I have free speech, if not, let me know and I will amend my comments (if I have to).
I saw the programme – and was left reassurred that the greater population will now act to challenge the people featured in the programme who represented only their own minority of minority interests.
HI Richy
yes agreed, the programs existence is reassuring in itself.
I fear people are often too afraid of being labelled to speak up, so I thought it about time!
I understand that MI5 are also involved now so im sure they will sort things out…..
The thing is, these evil muslim biggots who are infiltrating the council / labour party for their own political (sharia and Islamic) ends will be now dealt with for the sake of keeping face, but the situation is so rife with them that they will only pop up somewhere else in local or central government.
Look at “Lord” Ahmed…Threatening 10,000 Muslims to charge the House of Lords and no one did a thing about him….. They ARE everywhere!
When Anjem Choudary was banned, a few days later he was interviewd, and the interviewer asked him why he was laughing..and Choudary said “Its because I KNOW Sharia is coming to Britain”. He knows what is going on.
Labour has defended the IFE themselves even, they have protected Tower Hamlets Council in the full knowledge that the IFE where instrumental in this council, they are FULLY aware that this “Hijab”shaped pair of Arches are grossly disliked by the people living there yet even though the people have said” no”, they are being erected (because the council is under militant muslim control).
This shit is only a fraction of what Islam is up t in Europe…it was a united nations directive brought about by the muslim countries that has had EVERY European country come up with a law that prevents anyone insulting religion, this is why eert Wilders and many others are being dragged through the courts.
Islam is deftly and gently winnng its evil way into the West, we must be fucking blind or something!
I warn everyone, if Islam gets in control here there will be no music, dancing, clubs to go to, shaging about, drinking, executions for gays and those who like a bit of fanny………. everyone poncing about like this is a bit of fun……… this is our FUCKING LIFE that is being threatened…. our grandads and great grandads were killed for this country in wars.
Islam is subtle, it smiles at you from your neighbours face…but it would sooner slit your throat……….. I HATE the fucking thing with a vengeance.
Well East london mosque was built wiht tax payer money. And its turned out to be a political wing of islam, why have we paid for them to build somethign like that that is in turn casuing problems. And now they are influencing councill decisions and spendings and controlling the council funds that are mant for the whole community on islamic and their supported charities.
This is wrong the money is for the community as a whole.
Their influence in the coucill needs to be kicked out.
They want a elected mayor what a load of bullocks.
Galloway will stand up again fitzpatrick and if he loses he will become mayor of tower hamlets as a fall back. Miss King was useless but he has a harder fight in his hands with Fitzpatrick. SO chances of him losing are high so there for he needs a fall back plan and that is Mayor for tower hamlets a plan that has been put into action with ife’s blessing.
What has galloway actually done for tower hamlets or what has respect done accpet for be a nuisence?
his been to cuba and big brother?
what else have they actually done?
Okay guys don’t get carried away. Outside a part of East London, the IFE has no influence in the real world. They are too thick to take over anything. Most of their members can’t even articulate a coherent English sentence.
Actually, with near control of Tower Hamlets council, entry in to the Labour party and access to millions of pounds of PVE money it is possibly the most successful Islamist organisation in the UK. It makes the Hizbut Tahrir look like a ragtag bunch of n’er-do-wells and hardline losers, which they are.
The IFE is the BNP to the Hizb’s Combat 18.
I too watched the dispatches program on Monday night & I was actually thinking of applying for a job in Tower Hamlets. I am a white British lesbian & as such feel that any chance of being judged on my merits my be all but gone. Why would I trade a LG job in a borough of equality for one where this is all going on. This is bad news as like attracts like, I predict an Islamic straight man will be employed to work in this borough. I hate extremists of any sort inc IFE & BNP, this is partly based on my fear of being persecuted for being homosexual as well as a non-practicing Christian woman, This is my country I want to continue living here. Despite all it’s faults I believe it’s the best country in the World. I hope this extremism is addressed by the majority of residents of Tower Hamlets in their next elections but until then we need to be aware of what’s going on there & act accordingly. The Labour party need to get it’s act together and combat extremism wherever & whenever it happens in their name. They are also the current Government and should address inequality if it is happening in TH.
I am hoping to live in peace & harmony in London with all my brothers & sisters of any religion, colour or sexuality for a long time to come. P
Pb2
My love, im gay too.
Doll, you seem to miss the point that Labour is ACTIVELY encouraging links with extreme muslims privately, and publicly they are condemning them.
Theres no way the Labour party didnt know about all this…its all part of the plot to Islamicise the UK (and Europe)…I follow the EU proceedings on line every day…whenever any countrys spokes person tries to raise islam they are told to sit down.
Babe, gays will be illegal in ten years, youll see….as islam claims our land.
If Andrew Gilligan is so concerned about Islamism in politics, I wonder why he takes money from the Iranian government (PressTV), regularly hosting shows in a studio in West London owned by the Iranian state media channel, an operation run by a handful of dodgy looking young Middle Eastern guys, who bus in foreign students to pretend to be an interested audience, distributing hundreds of envelopes containing £10 notes at every show.
I thought Mr Gilligan got it right on Iraq and during the Mayoral election but there is another side to him. The fact is that this documentary presents very few facts (is Abjol Miah really a member of the IFE? Says who?) relative to the amount of innuendo with unpleasant connotations.
To Independent……….
Well what on earth does the slagging of Andrew Gilligan do to disprove the fact that Islam and Labour are bedfellows?
Leave Gilligan out of the equasion…… Islam is still in government, and they want the Wests downfall….or is your observation meant to be a defensive stance for these evil two faced lying bastards?
“Islam” is not in power in Britain. Labour multicultural communalism/identity politics is in vogue in Tower Hamlets Borough local government in London, but it has been for the last 20-30 years. I live in Tower Hamlets by the way, the biggest annoyances are the continual tax increases, wastes of money and incompetence of the Council. The caricature picture of Tower Hamlets Labour councillors as a group of would be Taliban has nothing to do with reality.
kafur, if it means the notion of Islamists taking over the UK government – no matter how unreal that is – gets you peeing in your pants, then bring it on!
Wholesale
What sort of an arsehole are you? Im not peeing in my pants, I am 62 years of age and have more understanding on all things Islamic than you care to mention. I have followed Islamisation in the UK and EU for donkeys years.
I have been dealing with Islam for thirty years now.
“Islam” is very much in power in the EU and UK…..people are being dragged before various courts for “Slandering” Islam (under the guise of “respecting religion”).
It is Islamic countries that have brought pressure on the EU to pressurise their countries to create these laws. People have been given suspended jail terms and HUGE fines to quieten them.
When we get an Asian (Muslim) Lord in the House threatens 10,000 muslims to charge the house if an elected politician is allowed into the uk , and the government jumps than that is “Islam in Power”.
We have an Islamic minister of justice that “hopes Islamic MPs will soon increase, and one day we will have an Islamic Prime Minister”.
When we get Senior police officers abusing their positions, and telling their bosses “I answer to Allah, not you”, then carries on bullying and breaking the laws of the land, then this is Islam in power.
When the whole countries cow towing to Islamic pressures, schools closed on islamic holy days, teachers told to wear muslim dress on special days, teachers wearing scarves to enter mosques (as part of the uniform),when my grand kids get fed halal meat at school without choice, when a christmas play is cancelled because Eid was imminent.
Look around Europe, Norway, france, holland, germany…everwhere Islamic pressures are causing terrible clashes and fighting……… we in the UK are under the control of Islam whether yor short sightedness can appreciate i or not.
Labour is in complete partnership with Islam, it encourages Islam to come here…it feeds Islams superstitions and accomodates its outrages…Labours ordon Brown has proudly announced that “London will be the financial capitol of Islamic Finance, and has sold half of London to Islamic businessmen, he has negotiated Islamic bonds, our Ferry services to Dover and France belong to Islamic businesses……. Brown has made this country as Islamic as he can.
Please do not assume that Islam begins and ends with Tower Hamlets.
Most of all do not think that because Islam hasnt won an election, that it is not in power………. you are very nieve.
hmmm…I see now what wholesale meant about you peeing in your pants .
Mace……….. you are an idiot….. probably a socialist one.
Kafur – is so paranoid and believes all media printed about muslims. Many articles in the Sun and their likes contain a load of utter rubbish. Most of his point about islam power has no evidence and were rumoured reports in racist tabloids.
Religious discrimination is for all religions the law was not invented for muslims (actually for jews, but used by everyone). Your just and only fool whos time is up and has noting else to do with his life but moan and let is crazy senile mind wander. Whats next the aliens are going to take over the world.
BTW did you spell your name wrong i think its meant to be spelt KAFIR and not kafUr.
I have been reading all the comments many have posted in relation to the current situation,One can assure the many who have grave concerns that action will be taken and indeed measures put into place to procure the right candidate for the right position by fair election techniques that this nation follows to the letter.
I am now in the proses of reviewing some groups who are active in the Tower Hamlets area and I will be reviewing 546 Islamic based Charity’s, I have requested the Charity’s commission and other government departments to look deeply into the above and overtly and covertly monitor the activity’s of any group who’s aim is to circumvent the base of our electoral system to that of a third world state.
I have also asked for the funding from Tower Hamlets and other locations to be looked into by the metropolitan Police as a matter of urgency as they is strong evidence some of the said funding has been used to educate Jihad to religious schools.
Undercover video evidence not shown in the C4 program is now in the hands of specialists.
Dr Rhimer Goldsmith.
Islam as a religion has around 9% of the UK population as Muslims as of Jan 2010.
Islam is not a threat to the UK but the threat does come from the Muslims who feel Jihad is the way to forward, and we ALL need to stop them by supporting our security services, soft or hard Intel is what they need, as the majority of the population will not judge the Muslim population on what they do, but on what they DID NOT DO……..out of all the recent attacks we had but 1 warning from the Asian community and at this time they are actively covering for the Jihadists this is more so in Yorkshire .
What a load of tosh, Harry. Recent Europol findings show that the real terror threat is from non-Muslim terrorist groups, in fact 99.6% of recent terrorism was from non-muslim groups, only 0.4% was from Muslim extremists! (see http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/ ). What’s with the ‘fanatical’ obsession with Muslims in this regard? That’s why you’re going to get passed off as a stinking Islamaphobe…
And how did you make such foolish conclusion, blaming the Asian community for not ‘warning’ of attacks, and then of ‘harbouring’ terrorists (the same nonsense we bombed Afghanistan to bits with)! That’s the police’s and security service’s job, not the ‘asian’ community’! And how much unpaid police work do you expect the ‘asian’ community to do when the police monitor Muslim toddlers in nurseries (would the non-asian community accept that if it were their’ toddlers? See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6952503.ece). Or when school teachers are being trained to spot terrorist recruits aged 11 (ridiculous but real – http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23801932-london-teachers-trained-to-spot-terror-recruits-at-age-11.do). Or when students are ‘raided’ in public by police and falsely accused of the ‘Easter bomb plot’ and then unfairly deported (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/03/pakistani-students-arrest-release )? Or when Muslims are falsely accused of crimes they did not commit (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/8504952.stm )? Don’t expect ‘asians’ to be subservient slaves at your request while you push them around!
And where’s your blame on the ‘white’ community for not warning of the racist right-wing islamaphobic terrorist Neil Lewington (see http://cms.met.police.uk/news/convictions/right_wing_bomb_maker_guilty_of_terror_offences ) and was arrested fortunately on a ‘series of terrorist offences’? Or what about the similar racist pipe-bomb terrorist Darren Lee Tinklin (see http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/5024861.Pipe_bomb_maker_jailed_for_three_years/ )?
Can we likewise blame the ‘white’ community for not warning of the Brick Lane nail bomber in the late 90s that wreaked havoc in the community, but yet is ignored by you and your cronies?
If the terrorism in Europe is 99.6% from non-muslim groups, where’s your proportional obsession and condemnation of that?
But you don’t give a monkeys about it all do you, cos dey ain’t ‘foreigners’ like dem Muzlimz, innit?
So you witness or know of the organisation of a crime and you do not report it because that is not your job?
Pull the other one.
Where is your proof that the asian community ‘witness’ or ‘know of’ a crime but don’t report it, so that they deserve to be blamed as a result? There’s a difference between police work and spying, and reporting a known crime. Keep pulling on it.
That is not what was written, Respectabilia. To quote again, this time with emphases added, so that you grasp the meaning:
So you were claiming that it was not the job of the Asian community to report suspected terrorism. You were not claiming that the Asian community knew/did not know of any such claim.
In fact, of course, the latter is quite another matter. To repeat: you were not initially addressing this claim; but, rather, you were claiming that the Asian community (as you insist) had no responsibility to report matters to the authorities because it was not their job.
There is an obligation upon members of the community to report crime or conspiracy to commit crime.
You are claiming, Respectabilia, that this is “spying”. Presumably you think, therefore, that conspiracy to commit a terrorist act is a political act and thereby somehow legitimate?
Well, fancy that. You understand the notion of accessory, I take it?
Your position is tantamount to encouraging people NOT to report conspiracy to commit terrorist crime, or the committal of terrorist crime.
Faris, good to see you sober again my boy . One minute you’re a drunk low-life telling all your critics to f*** off and the next minute you’re playing philosophical fool (very well) getting kicks off word games…
what a bunch of shitty claims…Where’d you get from respect’s point that the community is obliged to report criminal activity but not spy, to claiming he means NOT to report crimes?
Again you boys prove his point so cheers on that one; you couldn’t give a cow’s foot about all the rest about racist terrorists, non-muslim terrorists, about the intelligence from the white community…on your standards, where’s your condemnation for the white community for not reporting? You boys show up your true colours…
Take off em islamaphobes-united undies off your head and smell the fresh air boy …
Do fuck off, you annoying sub-literate troll – and take your army of vomit-inducing sock-puppets with you, while you are at it.
Abu FOGA – I know you have a bangladeshi toilet with the faces of your beloved lesbian hasina and war criminal mujib on it. Any way FOGA were you even alive during the ‘birth of bangladesh’? You should check your history and find out what a true dictator mujib was, and how the majority of the bengalis celebrated the death of mujib (I hear he was gay and love incest too)
Fuck off, you pig-ignorant scum sucker.
PB2 Don’t worry, Tower Hamlets is a very gay friendly council – look at their webiste and type in LGBT. If you look at the results of the last cencus you’ll see that Christians are the majority in the borough with Muslims not far behind. Nationally, Muslims form 2.9% of the population and are pretty negligble really. There are more than 3 times as many gay people than muslims (if you believe the 10% that is often quoted) But the media seem to love talking about any “muslim” story. I think we should let them blend into the background and get on with their lives peacfully and quietly.
I’m a simple man with a simple mind, the way I see this Sharia law and the problem with TH goes back hundreds of years, when poeple were forced to either except Islam or be beheaded. The coralation of this is, modern day muslim extremists and terrorism. Violence and threats of violence don’t work, so Islam extremism finds another way, TH is just the tip of the iceburg. The aim of extreme Islam is for the world to be converted, and it will use any means to do so, one of simplest being pro-creation, (divide and conquer). The only way to stop the world Islamic state is to play them at their own game, make plenty of western minded children and fight fire with fire. Just remember, the agenda of extreme Islam is world domination by any means. But, to give a balance to this, I am a white, british christian and I know plenty of muslims, been in thier homes, eaten their food, shared ideals and beliefs, surely this is a better way to co-exist. The statement I made refers only to muslim extremist and the like, from my personel expererience I have found muslims to be kind and thoughtful people, tolerant of others to live their lives as they see fit.
So, to any Muslim extemists out there I say this. Your agenda will not work, even the faithful of your own religion in the most part do not agree with you and your ways. Be brave all you good Muslims and make your stand against these extemists who will spoil the good name of Islam and brand you all as bad people.
From your post mark, I would advise you to learn further and clear up those misconceptions.
Here’s what historian De Lacy O’Leary wrote about your claim of ‘convert-or-lose-your-head’: “History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”
Actually, the onus is on you to clear up the same as you object to his views.
Incidentally, De Lacy O’Leary was a Semiticist (linguist of Semitic languages) and Christian clergyman, he was not a historian. His views are no longer regarded as an especially helpful or accurate account of the emergence of the early Islamic empire. His main focus of academic research was, in any case, in Coptic language and Coptic Christian studies.
See, for a potted bibliography:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lacy_O%E2%80%99Leary [in German]
Wether in legend or fact, does not really matter…the same holds true, by word or sword, ancient or modern, whats the difference. Look back in what we can losely call “history” ( which is not always fact), even with christianty, religeous dictatorship has and will maybe always exist. The point is, ignorance breeds fear and loathing. And with Modern Islamic extremism most people fear. This is why people become anti Islam in thier views. I may not have expressed what I was trying to say very well, so to further add. Come into my home and eat with me and in yours, this way is one first step to empathy and understanding, when that is done in peace only good can follow.
Though I will always be Christian, I think we can all agree that spiritually the world is in decay, which is the bane of us all. How do we stop that ? I believe that no one representative, of any one religion has that answer, collectively we may just find one. Let us not shy away from what we fear but embrace it to overcome difference, otherwise all I can see is world war 3, which in the end would destroy us all.
Respect your point Mark, in particular about working together to uphold the spirituality in this morally decaying world.
So, getting back the point. Why should TH have such contorversy ? Surely anyone who has a good moral and spiritual investment in the community is a good thing, as long as it can be seen that it is beneficial to the ” whole community”, wether that be Hindu, Seekh, Christian or athiest. At least it could be start to stemming moral decay in our society. As long as it can be seen that no back handers have occured then why should people have a problem with it !
With respect, although Islamists portray themselves as concerned with, to use your terms, the stemming of alleged “moral decay”, theirs is a deeply sinister political agenda, which includes amongst other morally unworthy projects, the subjugation of women, as thorough an anti-Semitism as that witnessed in the heyday of European fascism, the prosecution of campaigns against other religious believers, a deep-seated racism towards certain ethnic minorities, a deep contempt for the norms of democracy, the denial of universal human rights, the encouragement of homophobic intolerance. These are certainly symptoms of moral decay that I would be concerned about in the agenda of groups like IFE in Tower Hamlets.
I note, Mark, that you failed to respond to criticisms of your arguments (made earlier by Faisal, Ibn Khaldun and others) in favour of the IFE in Tower Hamlets. I will register here some scepticism about your depiction of yourself as a concerned but naive non-Muslim who finds himself oddly in agreement with Islamists.
Apologies if I am wrong, but I do find your interventions too pat and convenient for my liking.
Again with respect Abu,what your saying is that there is a secret agenda here with IFE, that could well be the case, but how does one the sort the wheat from the chaff ?
This is why I ask that all good muslims give up the extremist within thier communty. As far as women go, why would it take women like Emily Pankhurst to die ?, I’ll tell you why….stubborness and the lack of will to trust that a woman can task as good as a man.
Don’t try to split hairs here and confuse the issue. In western society it was once deemed that a womans place was behind the kitchen sink, since then we had a female PM, ( Margaret Thatcher) so what does that say to you. It is just a progression in society.
I say, stop living in the past, the past is where it should be, in the past. Move on, stop prejudicing your mind with arguement and think of what can be achieved by a working together.
M
I note, Mark, that you failed to respond to criticisms of your arguments (made earlier by Faisal, Ibn Khaldun and others) in favour of the IFE in Tower Hamlets. I will register here some scepticism about your depiction of yourself as a concerned but naive non-Muslim who finds himself oddly in agreement with Islamists.
Apologies if I am wrong, but I do find your interventions too pat and convenient for my liking.
In response to this, Nothing odd about it. As the quote goes ” great minds think alike ” so where is yours ?
By examining the evidence as presented here and elsewhere that the Islamists of the IFE are acting in a manner that is both deceitful and not in the best interests of the wider community in Tower Hamlets. This is hardly a “secret agenda”, the IFE and other Islamists are fortunately less than discreet in their ambitions.
That would be the IFE and other Islamists, of course.
Agreed. However, what has this to do with my comment?
I was unaware that I was doing either.
I am pointing out to you that the extremists in the Muslim community have a morally repellent platform – and that these extremists are the Islamists; including the IFE.
This is the progress that the Islamists in the IFE seek to undo. However, your point for this rather odd diatribe is?
I think you have completely misunderstood my position. Go back and re-read my posts. I think you will find that one of my objections to the IFE and other Islamists is that they are reactionaries.
On the other hand, if you think work is possible with the very extremists that you claim you want to see squeezed out by the Muslim community, I have to argue that this is a very bizarre and self-contradictory position for you to hold.
I think that empty abuse speaks volumes, actually. You are even more plausibly an imposter.
With respect, although Islamists portray themselves as concerned with, to use your terms, the stemming of alleged “moral decay”, theirs is a deeply sinister political agenda, which includes amongst other morally unworthy projects, the subjugation of women, as thorough an anti-Semitism as that witnessed in the heyday of European fascism, the prosecution of campaigns against other religious believers, a deep-seated racism towards certain ethnic minorities, a deep contempt for the norms of democracy, the denial of universal human rights, the encouragement of homophobic intolerance. These are certainly symptoms of moral decay that I would be concerned about in the agenda of groups like IFE in Tower Hamlets.
And yes Abu, I would agree with you in all of what you say here. Quite a few of us at some time have been guilty of all these charges. So should it be that the sins of the father visit the son ?
M
Mark,
This is the distinction between motes and beams – which, as a Christian, you should be perfectly aware.
Firstly, I think that is questionable. Secondly, even if it was the case, we are not talking about historical wrongs – wrongs that have both ended and have, in many cases been righted; rather, we are concerned with present wrongs that are being committed now by Islamists.
Disagreement with this position leads to moral paralysis, where one does not act as pretexted by putative prior misdemeanour on one’s own part. Shortly – one does not act against moral wrong because one believes one has committed similar moral wrong oneself. That is, of course, an entirely immoral position to hold.
Incidentally, I am not sure how the religious-ethical principle of the sins of the father not being visited upon the son is relevant in this case.
with respect Abu,what your saying is that there is a secret agenda here with IFE, that could well be the case, but how does one the sort the wheat from the chaff ?
By examining the evidence as presented here and elsewhere that the Islamists of the IFE are acting in a manner that is both deceitful and not in the best interests of the wider community in Tower Hamlets. This is hardly a “secret agenda”, the IFE and other Islamists are fortunately less than discreet in their ambitions.
This is why I ask that all good muslims give up the extremist within thier communty.
That would be the IFE and other Islamists, of course.
As far as women go, why would it take women like Emily Pankhurst to die ?, I’ll tell you why….stubborness and the lack of will to trust that a woman can task as good as a man.
Agreed. However, what has this to do with my comment?
Don’t try to split hairs here and confuse the issue.
I was unaware that I was doing either.
I am pointing out to you that the extremists in the Muslim community have a morally repellent platform – and that these extremists are the Islamists; including the IFE.
In western society it was once deemed that a womans place was behind the kitchen sink, since then we had a female PM, ( Margaret Thatcher) so what does that say to you. It is just a progression in society.
This is the progress that the Islamists in the IFE seek to undo. However, your point for this rather odd diatribe is?
I say, stop living in the past, the past is where it should be, in the past. Move on, stop prejudicing your mind with arguement and think of what can be achieved by a working together.
I think you have completely misunderstood my position. Go back and re-read my posts. I think you will find that one of my objections to the IFE and other Islamists is that they are reactionaries.
On the other hand, if you think work is possible with the very extremists that you claim you want to see squeezed out by the Muslim community, I have to argue that this is a very bizarre and self-contradictory position for you to hold.
In response to this, Nothing odd about it. As the quote goes ” great minds think alike ” so where is yours ?
I think that empty abuse speaks volumes, actually. You are even more plausibly an imposter.
Hmmm, you round me off as if I am some kind of verse from the bible, LOL. take the whole of what I said in context instead of splitting it into groups and you may get the gist of it.
M
Mark, you are now making absolutely no sense whatsoever. Please try to.
Can I also suggest that you either learn to blockquote, or selectively quote, as your posts largely consist of re-pastings of previous posts made by others followed by increasingly incomprehensible comments.
Abu Faris
Posted March 9, 2010 at 6:26 AM | Permalink
Incidentally, I am not sure how the religious-ethical principle of the sins of the father not being visited upon the son is relevant in this case.
Thats because my friend you don’t understand the principle of continuity.
M
O I think I understand the principle of continuity, Mark. I must admit that I am somewhat baffled by how it applies in this example of a Judeo-Christian moral principle, however. Might I suggest that if you are to masquerade as a Christian you at least learn about the meanings of the principles of that faith when you chose to float them publicly? Your cover will be less easily blown.
It is an example of the “principle of continuity”, however, that you are not making much sense at all.
As you are becoming increasingly querulous and bizarre (as do all Islamists) in your arguments, I think we will leave it there.
Happy trolling, Mark.
hello folks,
So what is a abomination ? many things are…firstly ask your self. Do we give birth via our anus ? ….no, so why put a penus up one. Abominations are something that goes against the natural order. Still, people have their own way.
This is why people like Abu will never get on life, they have no natural order.
So those who have a pendulam state of mind don’t listen him as you may be one day have babies from your rectum.
M<
Yup, rather confirms my view that this is a repeat-offending Islamist troll. Caught out here comes the usual deranged and highly offensive abuse.
Completely and utterly stark, raving bat shit crazy.
Abu Faris
Posted March 9, 2010 at 7:08 AM | Permalink
Yup, rather confirms my view that this is a repeat-offending Islamist troll. Caught out here comes the usual deranged and highly offensive abuse.
Completely and utterly stark, raving bat shit crazy.
Mark says,
No Abu, your just one of those people who live in fear. Am I a bit crazy?…yes, a muslim…no, I am who I said I am. It’s people like you who would undermine any process to progresss through your paranoid agenda.
M
Whatever, Mark.
Let’s examine, for what it is worth and to the degree that it can be deciphered, your arguments so far:
(1) Questioning the strong evidence that IFE are undermining democratic governance in Tower Hamlets. No counter-evidence presented.
(2) (Here it gets odd) – Claiming that Muslims should be squeezing out extremists from their community. Agreeing that Islamists are extremists (including presumably the Islamist IFE, therefore). Then directly claiming that people should be working with these extremists!
(3) Making reference to a Biblical maxim (“sins of the Father” – note the capital “F”, Mark – most Christians don’t miss that one – you did). Berating the allusion to another Biblical maxim (“motes and beams”) as treating prior argument to a sort of Biblical treatment. If this is not odd, it gets even odder. Now, I spoon-fed you, Mark a means by which to beat me over the head with my own reference (“motes and beams”) – you might have replied: “Ah, that’s exactly my point!”. However, you did not, which is strange. Stranger still is that althougn you recognised it (or, I suspect, guessed it) as being from the Bible, you clearly did not understand the reference – which is very, very strange as it is possibly one of Jesus’ most famous comments anywhere in the New Testament.
(3) We are treated to a range of obtuse and basically faulty moral arguments, including the fantastical view that because one sins one is released or incapable of acting against the moral wrongs of others. Very convenient.
(4) Elsewhere you argue that women used to be treated badly – although we never actually learn why you raise this issue in the first place.
(5) We are treated to a comment about the “rpinciple of continuity” – a phrase that you clearly do not understand and procede to bizarrely misapply.
(6) Finally, we are exposed to the usual Islamist obsessing about bottoms, penises, anal sex and homosexuality, mixed in with the equally predictable ad hominem attacks.
In all, incomprehensible gibberish served up by an imposter with an odd line in homophobic abuse.
Have you considered a career in surrealist writing?
The most islamphobic and stupid article ever to have been written, so martin smith an outsider, who has been accused of islamaphobia and racism has now been replaced by a gay white man who has had 25 years of exereice and links to Tower Hamlets and once a local teacher.
What Lutfure rahman did was get rid of thoese who come to Tower Hamlet not benefit the borough but benefit financially from it and build their CV. We are sick of such people
IFE are not an extremist organisation, the older members maybe very traditional, and some younger members amonngst them. They are the single muslim representative body in Tower Hamlets who have fought and worked hard on local issues aswe ll as cultural and relgious issues.
Racist Ted Jeory, peter Gold ( self declaired zionnist nad free mason)and the other islamphobes should be ashamed of themsleves at the hatred they have stirred up just beuase a few ethnic moorities who are independed in their thinking refused to be kept under thumbs ad dare to take independent decisions. The british emapire is dead, treat your fellow citizens, descendancts of that empire with some respect.
The most islamphobic and narrow minded article ever to have been written, so martin smith an outsider, who has been accused of islamaphobia and racism has now been replaced by a gay white man who has had 25 years of exereice and links to Tower Hamlets and once a local teacher.
What Lutfure rahman did was get rid of thoese who come to Tower Hamlet not benefit the borough but benefit financially from it and build their CV. We are sick of such people
IFE are not an extremist organisation, the older members maybe very traditional, and some younger members amonngst them. They are the single muslim representative body in Tower Hamlets who have fought and worked hard on local issues aswe ll as cultural and relgious issues.
Racist Ted Jeory, peter Gold ( self declaired zionnist nad free mason)and the other islamphobes should be ashamed of themsleves at the hatred they have stirred up just beuase a few ethnic moorities who are independed in their thinking refused to be kept under thumbs ad dare to take independent decisions. The british emapire is dead, treat your fellow citizens, descendancts of that empire with some respect.
What Lutfure rahman did was get rid of thoese who come to Tower Hamlet not benefit the borough but benefit financially from it and build their CV. We are sick of such people. Martin smith and other racist deserve to be ousted, kevin collins gay middle aged man with depth and experienc ebring them onn. Lutfur ali, well done to the first high raking ehti minority to make it in tower hamlet desite the layers of deep seated institutional racism and silamaphobia rampannt in tower hamlets. Despite tower hamlet havig one fo the highest graduate employment in the country, most ethnic graduates, every sebiour position in Tower Hamlet accross the public and private business is dominated by on residets and all white, who refuse to let nayoe else in except their friends.
Thank you Lutfur for trying to break that racist barrier..
IFE are not an extremist organisation, the older members maybe very traditional, and some younger members amonngst them. They are the single muslim representative body in Tower Hamlets who have fought and worked hard on local issues aswe ll as cultural and relgious issues.
Racist Ted Jeory, peter Gold ( self declaired zionnist nad free mason)and the other islamphobes should be ashamed of themsleves at the hatred they have stirred up just beuase a few ethnic moorities who are independed in their thinking refused to be kept under thumbs ad dare to take independent decisions. The british emapire is dead, treat your fellow citizens, descendancts of that empire with some respect.
What Lutfure rahman did was get rid of thoese who come to Tower Hamlet not benefit the borough but benefit financially from it and build their CV. We are sick of such people. Martin smith and other racist deserve to be ousted, kevin collins gay middle aged man with depth and experienc ebring them onn. Lutfur ali, well done to the first high raking ehti minority to make it in tower hamlet desite the layers of deep seated institutional racism and silamaphobia rampannt in tower hamlets. Despite tower hamlet havig one fo the highest graduate employment in the country, most ethnic graduates, every sebiour position in Tower Hamlet accross the public and private business is dominated by on residets and all white, who refuse to let nayoe else in except their friends.
Thank you Lutfur for trying to break that racist barrier..
What Lutfur rahman did was get rid of thoese who come to Tower Hamlet not to benefit the borough but benefit financially from it and build their CV. We are sick of such people. Martin smith and other racist deserve to be ousted, kevin collins gay middle aged man with depth and experienc ebring them onn. Lutfur ali, well done to the first high raking ehti minority to make it in tower hamlet desite the layers of deep seated institutional racism and silamaphobia rampannt in tower hamlets. Despite tower hamlet havig one fo the highest graduate employment in the country, most ethnic graduates, every sebiour position in Tower Hamlet accross the public and private business is dominated by on residets and all white, who refuse to let nayoe else in except their friends.
Thank you Lutfur for trying to break that racist barrier..
What Lutfur rahman did was to challenge those who come to Tower Hamlet to benefit financially from it and build their CV. Martin smith and other racist deserve to be ousted, kevin collins gay middle aged man with depth and experience bring them on. Lutfur ali, well done to the first high raking ethic minority to make it in tower hamlet desite the layers of deep seated institutional racism and islamaphobia rampant in Tower hamlets. Despite tower hamlet havig one fo the highest graduate employment in the country, most ethnic graduates, every seniour position in Tower Hamlet accross the public and private business is dominated by on residets and all white, who refuse to let nayoe else in except their friends.
Thank you Lutfur for trying to break that racist barrier..
Lutfur rahman challenged those who come to Tower Hamlet to benefit financially from it and build their CV. Martin smith and other racist deserve to be ousted, kevin collins gay middle aged man with depth and experience bring them on. Lutfur ali, well done to the first high raking ethic minority to make it in tower hamlet desite the layers of deep seated institutional racism and islamaphobia rampant in Tower hamlets. Despite tower hamlet havig one fo the highest graduate employment in the country, most ethnic graduates, every seniour position in Tower Hamlet accross the public and private business is dominated by on residets and all white, who refuse to let nayoe else in except their friends.
Thank you Lutfur for trying to break that racist barrier..
Anatlus is presently being held in ward nine should anyone care to visit him.
Nurse, the screens!
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Do keep taking the tablets, Cameron.
Cameron has been disemvowelled.